REVIEW
Defying Convention: SQlab 12º and 16º Sweep Bars
SQlab 30X Handlebars
After an NSMB reader (Endur-Bro!) mentioned SQlab's ergonomic handlebars below an article I couldn't get them out of my head. Like most riders, I thought I was happy with the standard 7-9° back sweep. But then I started to wonder if that was because I did't know better? And why was my left elbow bothering me on long rides?
To collect sufficient data I swapped three bars between four bikes. The control was my current favourite, the 780mm Renthal Fatbar aluminum, with 7° of backsweep. I pitted it against two 780mm wide SQLab 30X bars in both 12° and 16° versions.
SQlab's 16° 30X aluminum bar. Ridden on a Trek Stache, Marin Hawk Hill, Kona Honzo and Kona Explosif.
SQlab's 12° 30X carbon bar. Ridden on a Trek Stache, Marin Hawk Hill, Kona Honzo and Kona Explosif.
Materials
SQlab's carbon and aluminum 30X bars easily pass the Zedler 'End Of Life' tests for both gravity and e-bike* applications. Bars ship out at 780mm wide in 12° and 16° backsweeps in both materials and three rises are available - 15mm, 30mm and 45mm.
The carbon bars are stiffer on the trail compared to the aluminum models and also drop around 100 grams depending on the exact configuration. Both bars use 31.8mm clamping diameters.
12° vs. 16° backsweep. Upsweep is 4° for all models. The uncut length is 780mm and the stem clamp diameter is 31.8mm.
Dimensions are clearly displayed on the 30X bars along with a graphic reminding the purchaser that they're ergonomic.
The carbon finish is a gorgeous matte black and I love the understated graphics. I do prefer the textured finish of the aluminum bar when it comes to clamping on cockpit components.
The only complaint I have with the carbon SQlab bar is that the slick black-on-black finish is... well... slick. It makes tightening levers, dropper remotes, and grips so they are tight enough but not over-torqued a tricky exercise. The aluminum bar's slightly textured finish is perfect in this regard.
Hooked
The SQlab bars work best with brake lever blades with generously hooked ends. Magura HC lever blades and the last couple generations of Shimano Servo Wave both work well. The very straight blades on the Level brakes that are stock on NSMB's Trek Stache test bike did not. Even on the 12° bar I felt like my fingers were going slip off the end of lever blades at the worst possible moment - coming in hot and heavy with sweaty digits. I swapped the brakes out before testing the 16° on the Stache.
After a lot of experimentation, I run my brake levers rotated much higher - closer to parallel with the ground - with both SQlab bars than with the 7-9° bars. It simply feels more natural.
On The Dirt
After running the Renthal Fatbar on all four test bikes the 12° 30X was a natural fit with no adoption curve. Uphill and downhill it feels completely normal and at the end of a long ride, I feel less fatigue in my shoulders, elbows, and wrists especially after long rides with lots of time out of the saddle climbing and descending. I also appreciate the greater sweep when pulling back on the bar during hard seated climbs. In those situations, it feels natural and I feel more power coming from my upper body.
There is no trade off for me to run the bar and I'm convinced that a 12° backsweep suits my body much better than a 7-9°.
I assumed I would need to run longer stems to make up for the extra backsweep of the SQlab bars but after some experimentation on all four mules I use precisely the same stem lengths and bar heights as previous. Running alt-bars** requires a certain commitment to experimentation.
The 16° 30X was a different story. It was immediately comfortable for standing climbs but it felt a little uncomfortable for seated climbing on technical terrain. When I pointed it down initially it felt as awkward as an adult using chopsticks for the first time. After some saddle time, I came to realize it has its place on my bikes. I find it more comfortable on all day rides but it took a handful of outings to adapt to on technical descents, especially at speed.
It is never my first choice on the Stache or Hawk Hill, where most of the climbing is seated. Instead it has evolved to be my preference on my single speed as it works better for me bio-mechanically during standing climbs and I no longer find it to be a large trade off on descents.
Swept Away
I'm sold on riding handlebars with more sweep on my personal bikes. The 12° because there is no trade off for the slight performance and comfort gain I perceive and the 16° because it is a significant improvement in certain situations.
Your results will vary but my take away is two fold. It's a great idea to try something weird once in a while because it may be better, if only subtly, than what I'm using now. I've been recommending more sweep to anyone who is cutting rides short due to elbow, wrist or shoulder pain give. It can only hurt your pocket book and there's a good chance it will make riding more enjoyable.
The aluminum 30X bars sell for $90 (USD) and the carbon 30X models are $190 (USD). For more information check out SQlab here.
*E-bikes account for a large percentage of bike sales in Germany where both SQlab and Zedler are based.
**Or perhaps 'semi-alt-bars' in the case of the 12° model.
Comments
Fat_Tony_NJ
6 years, 8 months ago
If you are looking to try this concept on the cheap, On-One makes the Fleegle bar - 15 degree sweep. Only 720mm, but cheaper than buying aluminum tubing and bending it yourself........
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
That's a good find. There are quite a few options once you get down to narrower widths - none I've seen as cheap as the On-One - but for me it's the 780mm width of the SQlab bar that makes it rideable in terms of even experimenting with more sweep.
Oddity Cycle's Razor Bar Plus is a pretty sweet 800mm/15° option as well - assuming one can use all the rise and doesn't mind the extra weight of a steel bar.
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Ashwin Amanna
5 years, 7 months ago
Two other potential options:
Salsa flat bar 11 degree backsweep
Origin 8 Trail sweeper 15 degree backsweep
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TheFunkyMonkey
6 years, 8 months ago
Thanks for the thorough comparison review on these, Andrew. I've been considering them for some time now but have been reluctant to go ahead and buy a set. I'm going to give the 12 degree a shot. Thanks again - great review.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
Thanks for reading; let me know how it goes. Just in my riding circle there are a lot of folks talking about trying the 12°.
My wife has an old wrist injury that affects her riding and she put a hand on my 16° and knew right away it would help. So I bought one - more sweep more better right? It's good on the road but in hindsight the learning curve (coming off a 7°) is so steep for riding technical trails I would have been better off getting her a 12°.
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TheFunkyMonkey
6 years, 5 months ago
I'm following up as I've had the 12* for about 100 miles thus far and they are game changers for me. I did cut mine down to 760mm as I've found anything wider too much for my 5'9" (0 ape) body. And I got the alloy version for this "trial" - quality product.
I, too, have an old wrist injury (compound fracture) that doesn't bother me often but does get "tired" after rides (or anything endurance related). And I don't have full flexibility of that wrist so the added sweep of these bars really helps my situation.
I do agree that 12* doesn't require any adjustments coming from current, standard bars. I haven't experienced any downsides on technical descents but the climbing position and leverage is fantastic. These just flat out work and are super comfortable.
I'm a convert and evangelist. They aren't for everyone but definitely a nice option to have. I'm actually surprised more brands haven't offered similar options. And while 16* are likely too much for any technical riding, I do see trying them out at some point. They seem like a great option for a flat bar road/CX bike or commuter.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 5 months ago
Awesome! I’m glad they’ve made such a difference.
I’m still regularly riding 7/8/9-degree bars on test bikes but now that I’m used to the 16 I don’t have any issue adapting between the range.
I do still maintain that the 12 is the natural choice for folks to try first.
This has been a really positive review experience for me as I’ve had a lot of feedback from both riders who have already discoverd bars with more sweep (mid-sweep alt-bats?) or who are trying them after reading about them here. Really cool.
Thanks for sharing!
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Eric Whiteside
2 years, 1 month ago
Great review! I equipped the 12 degree on my 2020 Patrol (L) last year and I can definitely say that it was a game changer. Took pressure off my shoulders, elbows and wrists. I also took a 780mm 9 degree bar off my fatbike this winter and equipped the 16 degree bar and I absolutely love it.
I'm leery though of putting a 16 degree bar on the Patrol though even though the 12 degree was good and the 16 feels good on the fatbike, I worry that the 16 might be too much on the Patrol. I may give it a shot early season once the snow and mud here recede.
Either way, there is DEFINITELY significant benefit to increased backsweep in the bars.
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Cr4w
6 years, 8 months ago
Really interesting! Have you tried the Jones H-Bar and if so, how did it compare to these?
http://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bar/
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
I have owned a Jones bar - older Ti model - and I know a number of people on the current aluminum and carbon versions.
The Jones bars have 45° backsweep so they are really entirely different animals where the SQlab bars are more like regular bars with more sweep.
The Jones are very comfortable and would be my first choice for doing off road touring or bike packing for sure. I did not love them for technical mountain biking - hence switching back to 'normal' bars after riding them a while.
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DMRDave
6 years, 5 months ago
What a great article!
I had an off (otb in to a ditch) at the same time as over working myself renovating a house a few years ago and trapped a nerve in my neck.
Since then I have struggled to do more than about an hour riding on my fullsus (Intense Tracer) with an Easton Havoc bar. My hardtail (Stanton Slackline) has a more comfortable cockpit, but the bars are a little narrow and old (15years at a guess Azonic Double Walls) and have a little to much flex in them but the shape is about right (I can't find any info on their actual shape?).
So after hunting for a alternative shaped bar (a different colour or pattern does not warrant a different product does it?), I recently read a past issue of MBUK with an article about Hans Ray using the "weird cockpit of SQlab Bars" but finding more info on these has not been easy!
it's interesting that Syntace also do a similar shaped bar, but their website is not easy to use and how do I decide which of these few choices would suit me best without buying them (no shops are going to stock either of these in the UK i doubt)?
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Andrew Major
6 years, 5 months ago
Wait... so anodized red bars aren’t more comfortable?!?!
Thanks Dave. Yes, Hans also runs a 16-degree bar.
If you do get a bar please follow up re. learning/adaptation curve to ride it and if it helped.
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DMRDave
6 years, 5 months ago
So I have done some crude measures and calculations on my Azonics and come up with 10deg back sweep and almost 11deg up sweep!
Having looked in to bars further it seems that MX bars (yes heavy and different diameter so not suitable) are available in a few distinct shapes (named to various different sponsored riders & manufacturers). But confusingly they state the shape of the bars with 6 different dimensions including Renthal without a degree mentioned once!
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DMRDave
6 years, 4 months ago
So I've had 2 bars delivered both high Alu, one 12 the other 16.
Fitting tomorrow when it's light, was considering 16's on the hartal and 12's on the full sus and then likely stem swaps for an experiment as well.
I'll report back!
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Andrew Major
6 years, 4 months ago
Cool! Very interested to hear back about your preferred setup.
Definitely give the 16 a few rides if it doesn’t feel normal right away!
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John Keiffer
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm looking forward to your ride reports.
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goose8
6 years, 5 months ago
Just wanted to chime in on the discussion. I tried out both sweeps, and love the 16 degree model on my hardtail. It feels similar to my old Answer 20/20, but the additional width is spectacular. Got the AL version and couldn't be happier- thanks for the review.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 5 months ago
Since a few folks have been asking me... did you pick up your bar direct from SQL or through a dealer?
Thanks!
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goose8
6 years, 5 months ago
ebay, actually. However, after trying them out my mechanic, who has hand pain while riding from an injury, ordered a set for himself straightaway. He said that they're available through BTI. I live in the US btw.
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John Keiffer
6 years, 4 months ago
Can anyone add more comments about the difference between Alu and carbon as far as comfort?
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Andrew Major
6 years, 4 months ago
Hi John,
Did you have any questions I could answer beyond what I already mentioned in the piece?
The one caution I'd have is to make sure to disregard any responses that aren't comparing SQLab carbon vs. aluminum bars.
I find the aluminum bars more comfortable in the case of SQLab (they flex more) but that's not the case for every brand, for example (uncut) Easton carbon bars are quite comfy. One of the stiffest bars I've ever ridden was a 31.8 alloy bar (Spank) and the stiffest I've ever ridden is a 35mm carbon Chromag.
Cheers,
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Bajsola
5 years, 10 months ago
Hi Andrew.
I’ve ordered the Carbon version 12° bars, based on your review👍
Hopefully the arthrosis in my shoulder won’t hate me so much now.
I ordered carbon based on what i’ve read about damping off trail chatter (yes carbon is stiffer, but it is said to dampen vibrations more), thinking less vibrations would be a good thing.
But now i see you find the alu version more comfy on theese (didn’t see this post before i ordered).
Should i’ve gone for alu instead?
Cheers from Norway
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Andrew Major
5 years, 10 months ago
Cheers! I think mountain biking would be in a better place if in the majority of cases we just assumed carbon = aluminum but lighter.
Sometimes (like in this case) it’s stiffer-enough to notice but not always (31.8 Spark 800mm aluminum bars are just as wow-that’s-stiff as Chromag 35mm BZA carbon).
Anyways, it will be all good. I have hundreds of hours on the carbon and the bars geometry is more important than a subtle stiffness difference.
I do highly recommend finding a thickness of grips you like, buying a push-on grip that size, and gluing and wiring them.
I love Renthal Super Tacky Push-Ons but there are lots of excellent fatter options - Race Face Chester is great as is the Square Wave or SW-XL from Chromag. Everyone I know with hand issues who I’ve convinced to ditch lock-ons wishes they’d done it years ago. It helps with vibrations for sure.
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Bajsola
5 years, 10 months ago
Allright, looking forward to test it now,
Haha, funny! My plan was renthal cevlar push-ons.
Thanks for the reply!
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Bilkamonga
6 years ago
Ok, the article is great and there are so many good information on the comments. So I will just add that I have been use a Syntace Vector 10mm high, 12° backsweep for three years now. As many said, my shoulders, wrists and torso feel much better after any ride, even the not so long ones. And I didn't experience any compromise in terms of control or any grip/brake issues.
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Lynx .
5 years, 4 months ago
Just thought I'd chime in with my impressions on these bars so far since I just got and fitted the 16 degree on Friday. Initially I was a little skeptical of spending $80+ for a bar and not sure, so I opted for the Salsa 11 degree and honestly, compared to my regular 9 degree bars, could not really feel anything, so put it on my Monkey that does commuting duty.
Last month I injured my thumb quite bad and was off the bike for a good few weeks and definitely could feel the pressure out on the thumb when gripping the bars and decided to order up the 16 and give it a go. Initial install I think I had it rotated a bit too far forward, brought it back a bit and now feels good, can definitely feel less pressure on my thumb. Hand position does not seem to feel weird to me, but have not been on a proper ride yet with them, just some tooling about and commuting (they're on my 29+ Unit), hoping to get out for a ride either tomorrow or Wed, so will report back on how they handle the tech and a 3+ hour ride.
Just to add some info, I was running a 40mm stem and moved to a 60mm stem after using a few feet long straight piece of wood against the back of the bar and realising how much further back the 16 brought the end of my grips compared to the regular 9 degree. Not sure if this is how it wqill stay setup, but as a starting point, does not feel bad at all, but a good, tech ride will help cement the setup.
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tashi
5 years, 3 months ago
I like the big sweep (around 11˚) bars as well. I got hooked on the Salsa offering, then wanted something wider. Now I have the best of both worlds with their new(ish) Salsa Salt Flat bar: 11˚backsweep, 6˚ upsweep, 800mm wide and whatever price point and material you like. I got mine for around $50 and virtually any bikeshop can get Salsa stuff.
https://salsacycles.com/components/category/mountain_handlebars/salt_flat
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Andrew Major
5 years, 3 months ago
Have you tried more sweep? I know a few people who went with the 11° Salsa bars (great value & lots of options) and love it but who are only comparing to the 7-9° bars they were running in the past.
12° felt brilliant to me - with no learning curve - but the 16° works much better for my wrists/elbows.
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mmm
5 years, 1 month ago
What I really don't understand about the 12 and 16 degree versions is that SQlab lists the 12 degree version as the one that offers a more upright position. Seems logical that more sweep would put your hands closer to your body giving a more upright position.
Marketing copy reads: "The model with a 16° backsweep provides a rather stretched riding position on hardtails and race full-sussers, while the model with a 12° backsweep is perfectly suitable for an upright riding position on an all-mountain or enduro bike."
Could you shine some light on this?
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Andrew Major
5 years ago
Apologies for the late response, just saw your comment.
I’m not sure what they’re getting at with that comment. I used both back-to-back on a variety of bikes with the same stem length. They’re obviously different but I think that comes down to personal preference rather than application.
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 11 months ago
It's funny, cos they offer 311 16 deg bar and there they write, that's suitable for both stretched and upright:
https://www.sq-lab.com/en/products/handlebars/sqlab-handlebar-311-2-0-31-8.html
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 8 months ago
@Andrew Major, after some time with those bars, do you think that 16 is noticeably worse on faster descends? Is it worth to go into 12?
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Andrew Major
4 years, 8 months ago
I've been riding 16° on all my bikes and swapping them onto test bikes. I don't notice any negatives at all descending - just a bit of a learning curve to get used to them but I'm way beyond that.
The only bike I was recently happier with the 12° was swapping bars around on the carbon Chameleon and that's because I was testing a medium which already has a fairly short top-tube and reach compared to what I'm used to now.
The 12°is the safe bet since it's much less change from 7-9° but most the riders I know who've taken the plunge have gone straight to 16°. If you know for sure you want more than a standard bar it's the easy choice I think.
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Lynx .
4 years, 8 months ago
For me the 16 is it, no issues descending once, as Andrew said you ge through that small learning curve to get accustomed to the bit different feel. I tried a 12 degree Salsa bar and compared to my 9 degree, it really did not make much of a difference, actually felt about the same, the SQ Lab 16 was a whole nother story. Only problem you'll find is that if you own multiple bikes, once you've spent enough time on the 16* bar, you'll want one on all the other bikes, so can get expensive :-D
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 8 months ago
I've just received high-16 but it differs substantially from sqlab picture. There's no forward offset so it needs bit longer stem and rise is higher. Will take a photo ASAP.
EDIT: https://i.imgur.com/8kotaKr.jpg
Looks like it's about 1.5", 37mm.
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 8 months ago
My review will be quite short*: OMG, what a bar!
*Longer version will come
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John Keiffer
4 years, 7 months ago
Where's your update? ;-)
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 7 months ago
I've ordered SQLab XO series cockpit except stem: 3OX bar, 7OX grips and 6OX saddle. I'm about 175cm tall.
3OX handlebar high version has about 37mm rise (1.5") so is higher then on pictures from sqlab website. I run it on my recently build custom progressive 65 deg HA hardtail. Difference after switching from flat 720 is so big, that I can't believe I could ride 9 deg flat bar. Comfort combined with control. I think I've made right decision not to order 12 deg version. I can't directly compare but SQLab technical staff replied to me that it's more suited for people doing more technical stuff with elbows high. This answer satisfied me as I'm not one. I think, that 12 deg version is product for people that are not sure what to get and to try out new things but, wholeheartedly, IHMO it's not worth it as 16 is just it. There's also no point getting 311 too. First, due to bigger forward offset, so horizontal grips - stem distance is shorter. 3OX has about 50mm and 311 only 35mm so it needs 35mm stem and can't be further adjusted back so it's not suited for longer bikes and my frame has 480mm reach and 623mm stack when sagged 20%. Second due to width, I think this 780 is perfect.
7OX grips are extremely well made. Rubber feels awesome and grip is so great due to lots of texturing. There's no even slight feeling of "sticking". Most probably this is due to the rubber is free from harmful substances. Price/performance ratio is great. Worth to get a pair together with a bar.
6OX saddle is well, precisely made and comfortable. It's covered with kevlar so it should last long. I also run it without any elastomer to get proper bending, but I still think it should flex a bit more. I suppose they had to design thick joint to prevent stress cracking, that's why it's stiff. As far as shape goes it's really good. It feels OK when I'm more upright wandering around with saddle dropped down and also good when I'm leaned forward with no feel of pressure. I run it with U-shaped saddle spring from aliexpress (not overpriced R... original one, BTW copy is lighter) and this combo is great. EDIT: after few months of ride I've got to say that this saddle is exceptional. Period.
Will take some more photos of whole bike, you will see how it looks, but here's teaser:
https://www.endomondo.com/resources/gfx/image/77606883/a0fdd81edda2ee5b47ae771d7fa01b3b/big.jpg
I'm about to order Soma Dream riser for my wife. It will take some time, but will share my thoughts.
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Andrew Major
4 years, 7 months ago
Which size of 70x grips did you go with? I’ve ridden the medium quite a bit.
As you state the quality of the grip construction and rubber material is obviously excellent.
I still prefer non-lock-ons but these are my choice on bikes where I have a component (shifter or dropper remote) that isn’t hinged.
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 7 months ago
Medium. SQLab hand size about 13.5. There is no L for this model, I don't know why. But S was too small for me.
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Andrew Major
4 years, 7 months ago
Do you usually prefer thicker or thinner grips? I wear a large glove but generally like 32mm. Any sort of rule for grip with eludes me.
And yet, I’ve been quite happy with the Medium 70x even though they’re the fattest I’ve enjoyed in recent memory.
Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 7 months ago
Those are my first good grips after some poor lightweight stuff long time ago. I feel like they are ok, I've got S size pair too for wife, but they are too thin. Regarding measures my hand length from top of middle finger to palm line is about 19.5cm.
nate77
3 years, 11 months ago
Hi Andrew, I'm trying out one of these in the 16° Carbon version and have a question for you.
On the 16° what rotational position did you end up liking them in the most- tilted up slightly, flat, or tilted down slightly?
Thanks,
Nate
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Andrew Major
3 years, 11 months ago
Hi Nate,
On my static bike (rigid) I run them rolled back slightly. On my FS bike where I do ride a bit more forward they are closer to neutral and on my hardtail (where sag/suspension changes the geometry a lot) I roll them back a bit more than static.
Hope that helps!
Take care,
Andrew
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Lynx .
3 years, 11 months ago
Not quite sure if I understand Andrew correctly, but on mine, I run mine rolled forward (so center mark is down of center) by about 5mm so I get more upsweep to the bar and have found that very comfortable on my rigid Kona Unit. I initially tried them how SQLab suggest and did not like that one bit, a bit of fidling and getting some more upsweep was the ticket for me.
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Dan Conant
2 years, 10 months ago
Reviving a dead comment thread here, but based on the review and the comments it seems like the aluminum 12 degree bar is more flexible than the carbon 12 degree bar? I am coming from a RF sixc bar but am looking for more rise & more backsweep, but I enjoy the compliance/flexibility of the sixc bar and don't know what to expect upon a return to aluminum. Thanks in advance!
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nate77
2 years, 10 months ago
I had the 30X Mid Rise 12 degree carbon bar and switched to the same rise/bar in the aluminum. The Carbon bar was definitely stiffer in my experience. Glad I made the switch to the AL bar. Actually just ordered a high rise 30X 16 degree AL bar to try on my SS bike too.
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Dan Conant
2 years, 10 months ago
Thanks!
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Lynx .
2 years, 10 months ago
You won't regret going to the 16 degree, trust me, although, saying that, you might because when you try to go back lesser sweep, you might not be happy - Just had that experience myself. Haven't done anything but commuting less than 3 miles since Feb and lockdown here, did my first ride back on the 29+ rigid with the 16 degree and had no issues, did my 1nd ride on the 130/140 FS with regular 9 degree bars and wrists started to ache not long into the ride once I hit trails - definitely not good for more pedally rides where you're seated and not in the attack position.
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nate77
2 years, 10 months ago
Good to hear!! I want to move the other bike from the mid rise to high rise, figured it was probably best to test the 16 degree first to make sure I didn't want to change the geared bike to 16 degree sweep when I purchase the higher rise version.
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John Keiffer
2 years, 10 months ago
You should check out this video as it has some good info about choosing the right sweep:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSD7AkY4Ycc
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Dan Conant
2 years, 10 months ago
Thanks for the link, based on some tabletop measurements it looks like I'm the type of person who might want a 16 degree bar. Will probably order both and see how it feels.
Lynx .
2 years, 10 months ago
Hahaha. Saw that after I posted here, was going to come back and post al ink to it. Pretty interesting, because honestly, can't see how or imagine that people's hands don't come off their wrists at more of angle to warrant bigger sweep, but guess you are never too old to learn something. That being said, not a lot, heck, no one has ever hoped on my Unit with the 16 degree bars and not commented on how nice it feels.
How they did it was cool, but honestly, I just rest my palms on the top of the grips on pedal sections and you just automatically see your hands are at more of an angle than the avg bars sweep, hence why I'm curious to try a 23 sweep bar, as looking at my hands I'd say they're somewhere around 25-27 but think that would be a bit too much sweep for technical riding.
Andrew Major
2 years, 10 months ago
Lynx, I don't know what the magic number is, but having tried some bigger sweep bars - and obviously lots of lower sweep bars - I keep coming back to the 16°. That's not much of a poll, but when asked I always suggest forks try a 16°
Lynx .
2 years, 10 months ago
Andrew, yeah, I think for your "avg" trail riding setup 15-17 degrees is about where it's at once you've tried a bar with more than 9 degrees of sweep (FYI, think I mentioned, but tried the Salsa 11degree and didn't notice much difference to the regular 9), but if you're setting up a more pedal oriented type bike for longer rides/bike packing etc, more sweep is more better.
Andrew Major
2 years, 10 months ago
Very much agree with Nate. The aluminum bars are more comfortable than running the carbon.
That said, in my experience, the 30X carbon bars aren't brutal compared to some on the market - the SixC is one of the stiffer bars I've ridden.
If I'm buying a 30X, money aside even, it's aluminium every time.
Also, have to concur with everyone on the 16°. I'm currently running a 12° on the Titan I'm testing and it's really good but my body certainly prefers the 16° now that I'm used to something out of the 7-9° norm.
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Oliver Burke
2 years, 10 months ago
What titanium frame is that out if interest. Looks nice
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Andrew Major
2 years, 10 months ago
It's a Kona Explosif Ti frame that I ran as a mullet both rigid and with a 29" 100mm fork.
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bart
6 years, 8 months ago
Been waiting for this, seems like SQ lab has some stuff figured out - the saddle is still awesome and now 12 degrees might just be in my future!
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
Yeah, SQlab is my favourite brand I'd never heard of before 2017. They are 3/3 on the products I've tried: 30X bar, saddle and insoles.
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bart
6 years, 8 months ago
I'll have to hit up Uncle Kenny!
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Znarf
6 years, 8 months ago
Also try Syntace bars. They come in 12deg also, loads of different rises, widths and materials. Not cheap, but probably the highest quality bars and stems you can buy. Don't know if they're available in Canada though?
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Endur-Bro
6 years, 8 months ago
Thanks for the shout-out and review of these Andrew!
You've done the initial experimenting so I don't have to. The hugest advantage to these SQLabs, and what peeked my interest was the fact that they're designed to use the same length stem as a rider currently uses.
I almost purchased a bar this week but it was the older 311 @740mm instead of the 30X bar.
A few follow up questions. Which rise did you get the SQ bars in? Which rise is your preferred for Renthal? Finally, who is the distributor of SQLabs in Canada?
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
Cheers!
My 31.8 Renthal Fatbar is a 20mm rise - but I would now buy a 30mm rather than run the extra 1cm headset spacer under the stem since I don't need anything that low for any of my bikes. Both these 30X bars are 30mm rise.
SQlab is currently distributed through SQlab-USA in Canada. Shops can contact them to order or riders can buy any of their products direct off their website.
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Endur-Bro
6 years, 8 months ago
Thanks. I'm using a 20mm FatBar Carbon with a 10mm spacer underneath on my hardtail and a 30mm FatBar alloy on my DH bike. I'll probably try the 30mm carbon.
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Kenny Roberts
6 years, 8 months ago
Note that they also come in a high 45mm rise.
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SiT
6 years, 2 months ago
Checked with SQLab as am looking the 12degs 3ox and they stated that to preserve existing position you should use a slightly longer stem as the 30x do not sweep forward first before the rearward sweep. Their 311 bars do have a sweep forward first to negate the need to fit a longer stem.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 2 months ago
That’s true but whether I’m channeling Jeff Jones or otherwise, it wasn’t my experience with the 12 or 16 degree models. In both cases my position changed - hand position and body position - but after experimenting I ended up with the same length I’d been running.
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SiT
6 years, 2 months ago
Good to get your feedback though. looking forward to testing out.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 2 months ago
Let me know how you like them - and where you end up with Stem length relative to before.
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Mike
6 years, 8 months ago
Ritchey did this years ago didn't they? Shame they didn't market it properly.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
To my knowledge Ritchey - like many companies - never made bars in an 'All Mountain' or Enduro width. They were 680 or maybe 720?
What's unique about what SQlab, Syntace and Oddity (maybe others?) are doing is the width of the bars.
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Michael
6 years, 8 months ago
Syntace has had high sweep wide carbon and alloy bars for years... For mountain biking I find the higher sweep great for climbing and general flat riding but puts your wrist in an awkward position when descending, if you are trying to get your elbows in a decent attack position. Pick your poison I suppose, would you prefer more comfortable climbing and flat riding position or a more comfortable descending position...
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
That's true - as I mentioned above - but the big difference between SQlab and Syntace from a Canadian perspective is availability.
Syntace hasn't had a presence here in years.
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Kenny Roberts
6 years, 8 months ago
Actually, I was the Syntace importer and brand manager for six years and we sold quite a lot of 12 deg bars in the US. Syntace was also (and still is) distributed by QBP and BTI in the US and now is managed by Cycle Monkey which is also the Rohloff distributor. We just never managed to get a Canadian distributor so sales in Canada were limited. Syntace just did a 8 and 12 degree though and no 16 degree.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
Thanks for the check Kenny - I edited my post to say 'Canada' which is a lot more accurate!
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Michael
6 years, 8 months ago
I appreciated the narrower start point of the sweep on the Syntace bars exactly because it brought the reach in closer for shorter torso fellows like myself it allows me to keep the stem the same length to maintain steering feel and allow less exaggerated leaning for steep climbs. I own a couple of SQ Lab bars (not these) and other products of theirs and would rate them at the same quality level as Syntace (which is high) so these should be good if they suit your riding and body.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 8 months ago
Cheers Michael! Thank you for sharing your experiences. What model/width/sweep of Syntace bar are you using right now?
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Michael
6 years, 4 months ago
Long overdue reply... I run the Vector Alu 10mm rise at 780/12°. I agree with another commenter that the wider the bar the more sweep it should have. This is particularly true for me as I have relatively narrow shoulders. It helps to put my shoulder and it's related structures in a strong and neutral position (shoulder packed and elbows out but not pointed to the sky) Which then engages all of those support muscles like the lats and traps. Another side benefit of a bit more sweep is that riding tight and twisty trails is made just a touch easier by not having to rotate quite as far to get the wheel in the spot one needs it in. I would recommend a bar with a bit more rise as it allows one to take advantage of the up sweep if needed; just more options for getting that perfect position.
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Jeff Jantos
6 years, 6 months ago
Answer has their 20x20 bar. I have it on my intense and it was awesome. Have no problem descending technical terrain with it. My wrist numbness was gone. I wish the made it in something wider than 720. Glad to learn about these bars.
It only makes anatomical sense... The wider the bars, the more sweep you need to keep your wrists in a neutral unstrained position.
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DMRDave
6 years, 4 months ago
I'm sure I posted.... try again!
So which version would you recommend, ali or carbon? I believe some flex is a positive thing (hence why I ride a steel hardtail!) still undecided on sweep, maybe 16 on the hardtail and 12 on the full susser...
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Andrew Major
6 years, 4 months ago
Keeping in mind I’m not a weight weenie, even when I divorce my wallet from the discussion I prefer the alloy bar’s ride quality.
The carbon is not an overly stiff bar (i.e. I’m not complaining it’s too stiff as I have with others) but I think the alloy has a nicer ride.
If I was trying to keep the weight down I’d consider carbon but generally I’ve been drifting the other way on all my bikes: Steel Drivetrain wear items, more supportive tires, bigger brake rotors, brass nipples and etc.
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DMRDave
6 years, 4 months ago
Invaluable comments - you should state this in the review (did you?).
Alloy it is then.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 4 months ago
I mention that the carbon is stifffer - and the finish requires controls to be torqued harder - but relative stiffness is so subjective (+ve / -ve) it’s better to make personal claims in a conversation format (like this). I would buy the alloy bar (even without the cost savings) but I know lots of riders who prefer a stiffer cockpit, the 100gram weight savings and for whom the price difference isn’t a barrier.
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John Keiffer
6 years, 4 months ago
@Andrew Major I agree with @DMRDave - invaluable comments, and I appreciate your responses. Thank you.
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DMRDave
6 years, 4 months ago
Fair point. S
But, So many "reviews" (and news for that matter) seems just to be stating "what we've been told...", simple facts that anyone could piece together or worst of all a press release!
I like reading the personal comments, shows the reviewer has opinion and comparisons are very useful too.
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Andrew Major
6 years, 4 months ago
Thanks John & Dave.
I appreciate the feedback - and also the discussion here on the comments!
DMRDave
6 years, 4 months ago
So I received my Alu high 12 & 16 sweeps on Friday. In the hand off the bike the 16's definitely hold most neutrally.
I have fitted the 12 to my Tracer Intense and 16 to my Stanton Slackline and swapped the stems so now have the longer 70mm and 8 degree rise (I didn't realise it was that long until I measured it!) stem on the Slackline and the shorter 40mm with some rise on my Tracer, the idea was to see if this improved Mt Tracer (although not ridden more than around the garden, but it felt good).
A brief ride just now on the Slackline in the slush (its snowing) and the longer stem made a significant making it much harder to pop the front up to manual through rollers, but small drops (less than a foot) were fine.
Very little to say as of yet, but I did feel more relaxed across my shoulders, but at only 30mins it was a quick easy blast (one that had highlighted problems with comfort on the Tracer with Havoc's).
I'll feed back more after Xmas when I should get a few rides in on both bikes.
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DMRDave
6 years, 4 months ago
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bch71xdDF8j/
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Andrew Major
6 years, 4 months ago
I’ve tried a bunch of stem lengths and ended up settling with the same I run with regular bars (I go back and forth between different bars a fair bit). That said, I know Hans Rey went longer when he went 16, so I don’t think there’s a right answer.
P.S. looks great. Hope you get some solid rides in soon.
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mikeynets
6 years, 3 months ago
Long time reader, first time commenter. Thanks for this review and also the review on push-on grips. Over the last year, I've had increasingly more pain in my hand, specifically in my ring finger which locks in place and is hard to straighten again — known as trigger finger.
I've been looking at a variety of solutions — bars with different sweeps, thicker or softer grips, etc. Your reviews have given me some good starting points on what to consider.
But maybe the most insightful nugget came from a comment you left here: Spank bars being crazy stiff. About a year ago I switched from a Renthal fatbar lite to Spank Oozy — right about the time my hand pain ratched up.
I think I'll put off that doctor visit a little longer and try some new bars and grips!
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Andrew Major
6 years, 3 months ago
Hi Mikey,
This post means a lot to me. I'll be pumped if between a bar and grips your hand pain improves.
Please let me know how it works out!
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mikeynets
6 years, 3 months ago
Will do. I ordered the bars yesterday and going to LBS to get some grips today!
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mikeynets
6 years, 2 months ago
I have 50 miles on these bars (and some new ESI Chunky grips) and while I can't say my hand pain is gone, it's not worse. It's been less than a month though, and years worth of accrued damage to my hand so I wasn't expecting anything earth shattering.
I also got a steroid injection in that time and it didn't do anything — my dr. anticipated I had a low chance of seeing improvement.
I was coming from 760mm Spank Oozy bars and a 50mm stem on a large 2016 Norco Sight. I'm just under 5'11 and the reach on this bike feels perfect to me, though I haven't spent much time on any of the new longer reach bikes.
I didn't cut down the SQLabs bars figuring 1. lemme just see how they feel at 780 for a while and 2. with the added backsweep, the difference between 760 and 780 probably feels less than 20mm. Rode it through some of my tighter local trails and only dinged one tree so far. . .
I also didn't change to a longer stem. I have a 60 kicking around somewhere, but in all honesty I'm not that picky or sensitive to notice 10mm difference. Or, maybe I would notice it if it was glaringly off, but it isn't and so far I'm stoked on the SQLabs bars.
I'm still holding out for a longer trial period, but I do think there's a little more "give" to these bars than the Oozy bars. Maybe it's just in my head, or a recency bias or recent purchase bias, hard to say.
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DMRDave
6 years, 2 months ago
A bit more experimenting with the 16's on my short trail centre ride (5 miles sometimes linked with a 2.5 miles extension), generally once a week - I tell myself it's better than nothing.
I recon I could take more of a sweep and when climbing tent to rotate my hands further and put my thumbs over the top of the bar and consciously think "elbows in" which really helps relax my posture. The 50mm 20 degree rise stem is fine, I think at shorter stem would be better ( I had a 40mm/10deg rise dabomb stem for around 8 years), but I feel the rise is needed and the fork steerer is cut short so can't stack higher. I have rolled the bars back to near where they should be ( I had rolled them up to give more up sweep than back), but also following this article, I have narrowed in my grips, bakes, etc and am nearing in to a prefered setup....now to sort my tyres (I either run them hard and slide or soft and puncture); I've never thought about my bike setup so much!!!
For stem options I found this Site to compare actual reach of different setups, and the 40mm/10deg to 50mm/20deg with my head angle (phone app measured 67deg) was 3mm longer and 12mm higher
Now on a side note - I have been having more neck discomfort so have had a few physio trips recently, with a new chap as my previous has stopped practicing, this new guy has approached my problem differently and has looked at a few things, one of which is a wasting of tricep (right handside) which seems to cause me to use my muscles and frame wrong and sort of clench lots of muscles to gain stability..... so lots of tricep exercises cometh!
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John Keiffer
6 years, 2 months ago
If you ride with your thumbs over the bars, you should consider trying Togs. I like mine enough.
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DMRDave
6 years, 2 months ago
I did briefly, I only do it for firetrack type climbs, I'd imagine they'd get in the way on jumps/downhills though?
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DMRDave
5 years, 8 months ago
An update - over all very happy with the bars and having not had a few rides with the 12's as well (mounted to my full sus - Intenser Tracer VP) I definitely prefer the 16's but not sure they would suit the riding in the same way to a hardtail, in that I mean (although this could be many factors) I can get the front end up much easier manualing some as well as doubling up rollers at my local trail centre much easier on the full sus/12's over the hardtail/16's.
I have changed physio (again!) and the new one has made a significant difference. he for one is completely hands off and as I have a chronic problem (ie ongoing for a long time) massage won't work so he had me on some simple "shrug"exercises every other day with weights that made a significant difference in 2 weeks. The opinion being if muscles are weak they will clench and tire quickly (causing aggravation to nerves as well), so strengthen them off the bike so there is more power and endurance so it all takes more/longer to fatigue and become a discomfort. further exercises now added and I recon I'll be hitting the downhill tracks nearby before the summer is out (UK).
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Andrew Major
5 years, 8 months ago
Thanks Dave! I do find I need to run the 16 higher relative to the 12 when it comes to getting the front wheel up.
Best wishes on getting back on the technical tracks!
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r1Gel
6 years ago
Would these bars be OK for someone coming from the other end of the spectrum, i.e., alt-bars? I was on a Titec H-bar for about a season on my SS then found the 45-deg sweep too much and finally found the sweet spot on a 25-deg Ragley Carnegie Bar (eventually switched back to 1x10 too). I sold that bike (and the bar with it of course; stupid me).
I don't get well along with traditional "straight" bars anymore and was wondering if these 12-and 16-deg bars from SQLab would do the trick. I like a more upright position and thought the 16-deg would better suit me but the SQLab website actually recommends the 12-deg version of the 30X for more upright riders: https://sqlab-usa.com/pages/30x-handlebar
Anybody else in the same predicament as me?
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Andrew Major
6 years ago
I road a Ti-Jones bar in the Shore for a while. It worked well except in steep drop-ins (hand position) and landing drops (twisting in stem clamp).
I love the 16-degree and can’t think of any reason the 12- would be better based on bar height. Since you like 25- I’d say of the SQLab option the 16- would be the right choice.
Presumably these are a lot wider than the Ragely as well (haven’t seen one) - though they can be cut.
Hope that’s helpful,
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r1Gel
6 years ago
Hey thanks for the reply. Points well taken. Much appreciated.
I just find it weird that SQLab say that the 12-deg would be more upright (which I prefer).
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goose8
6 years ago
I’d echo what Andrew said. When I first switched to alt-bars I went with the Mary. It was good, but not great for drops, etc. Then I switched to the answer enduro 20/20, which I believe had 20 degrees of sweep. Moved to the sq lab to get a wider bar, and it’s been great. I tried the 12 but found that I prefer the 16 on both my hardtail and full suspension bikes. Hope this helps.
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r1Gel
6 years ago
Cool.
Thanks!
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Michael
6 years ago
Now that I’ve converted to longer reach bikes I have found the Syntace 12deg bar to provide too much reach reduction. Though I still think a useful tool if you are considering sizing up. Interestingly based on scaled drawings the 16deg SQlab bar has the same hand position as the Syntace 12deg 67 vs 68mm from bar centre. The 12deg 30x is about 52mm from bar centre, this I suspect because the Syntace starts its sweep much closer to centre as I mentioned before. I recently tried the Syntace bar on my current HT and while I liked the feel for seated pedalling I just couldn’t get on with the shorter cockpit when in standing attack position. So I think I may have to pull the trigger on the 30x 12deg and give it a go.
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Andrew Major
6 years ago
It's interesting in a 'geometry is more than numbers on paper' kind of way, but I find some bikes I'll add 1cm or even 2cm to stem length when I install the 30X bar (12° or 16°) but many I end up running the same stem length as I do with an 8-9°.
There's one bike I have on test with a very steep STA and correspondingly small fit where I couldn't make either sweep of 30X work with the bike.
Just got back from a couple big days in Cumberland on my single speed and compared to a similar output last year my wrists, elbows, and back felt much better and my upper body recovered much faster. I can't see going back to a straighter bar for some applications - but I do recognize it is sometimes more complicated than just throwing one on.
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Aleksander Pusz
5 years ago
What bike with steep STA do you own?
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Andrew Major
5 years ago
The steepest STA I’ve ridden is the new Kona Satori at ~78*. I don’t own one but I had it long enough to get the full experience.
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Aleksander Pusz
5 years ago
I see. Seems like it's not-so-long too with 450 reach for medium... Maybe that's reason too why it won't get along with sqlab bars?
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Andrew Major
5 years ago
I’m 5’9” and was riding the large. It is certainly not a long bike when seated but I think it comes down more to personal fit and I’ve had inconsistent experiences on bikes with very steep STAs. In other words, SQLab + steep STA didn’t work for me but that doesn’t mean it won’t work for you.
Aleksander Pusz
5 years ago
This comment has been removed.
Aleksander Pusz
5 years ago
I think this is related:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/exploring-the-relationship-between-handlebar-vs-stem-length.html
From my quick CAD mockup it seems, that sqlab 16 is about 65mm c-c and sqlab 12 is 48 or so. So actually sqlab 12 would not require any stem correction and 16 can require 10-15mm or so. SQlab 12 matches my old 9deg ritchey 2x bar quite closely, but it starts to bend very close to clamp:
https://eu.ritcheylogic.com/eu_en/bike/handlebars/wcs-trail-flat-handlebar
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Andrew Major
5 years ago
I actually wrote an article that references the article you linked to: Handlebar Width & Staying Gracious. I'd sum it up by saying that the take away from both articles should probably be - try different things even if you're happy with your current setup.
Hand position is different enough that there's certainly more to it than just mathing [sic] out a fit.
I'm generally on the same length stem with the 12° and a 1cm longer stem with the 16° but that's my starting point and I end up with different setups on different bikes relative to 7-9° 'standard' bars.
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Aleksander Pusz
5 years ago
That's quite interesting. Indeed trying is only one way to see, however I think it's nice to have some base point to actually be able to compare or not to compare almost identical.
Seems like bars miss rear "offset" parameter to show required stem length. Some of 9 deg bars are bent farther from clamp so "offset" is about 25-30mm. Actual difference between "standard 9" and sqlab 16 can be even 35mm. That's a lot.
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One Imaginary Boy
9 months, 1 week ago
I'm still rather confused.
I am coming from Santa Cruz 35mm rise carbon bars with 8° backsweep and a 35mm length stem. My Hightower has a 64.8° HTA.
I would like to try the SQlabs 30x 12° with the 45mm rise (since it seems they are lower than declared) with the SQlab 80x stem.
In order to keep my hands in the same position in relation to the center of the steering axis (which I would like to be "in-line" as close as possible), should I get the 35mm length stem, or move up to 50mm?
Has anyone measured the actual bar set-back?
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Eric Whiteside
9 months, 1 week ago
Couple of things...
I'm not sure how they measure their rise because I ordered the 40mm(?) rise and it does not look like other 40mm rise bars in comparison.
I haven't measured the bar sweep but I did compare it with several other spare sets of bars that I have, the steepest of which was known to be a 7° backsweep and the 12° SQlab bar was definitely more swept.
I did NOT choose to go with a longer stem after installing mine and I am extremely happy with the new bike fit. My bike came stock with a 35mm stem and the new bars didn't change the handling. What it did change though was my comfort level on the bike. From wrists, to elbows, to shoulders, the 12° sweep was an immediately noticeable improvement in comfort with no loss of handling from the previous setup.
I don't remember the exact date I purchased them but I think it's been nearly two years and the fact that I haven't had to think about my handlebars since is testament to me that they work as designed.
I was going to try to attach a photo that just happens to illustrate the positioning of the grips and stem in relationship to the fork in which you can see that my hands are now aligned almost perfectly with fork legs and just behind the front wheel axle. Unfortunately, I couldn't upload the photo. Total honesty, that positioning wasn't even an intentional result, but I'll take the win.
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Aleksander Pusz
9 months, 1 week ago
16 deg has bar ends about 75mm from bar center measured horizontally so you will be about 30mm closer to you then on an usual 9deg bar. Rise is measured vertically from bar center to about 7cm from bar ends (there was a link with this on SQlab page but can't find it right now) and is about 52mm to bar ends and about 32mm to first bend as most manufacturers specify.
I guess 12 deg version will have same rise but bar ends are about 20mm closer to bar center, 10mm more setback then 9deg bar, so you could change stem to 45mm, but IMHO I wouldn't care.
I own 16 deg version and thanks to large "setback" I could buy 30mm longer frame.
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One Imaginary Boy
9 months, 1 week ago
I think this is the page you are referencing: https://www.sq-lab.com/out/pictures/ddmedia/sqlab_lenkerbiegungen.pdf
I am 176cm tall and on a large frame with 475cm reach so I am fairly stretched out as it is compared to a generic size M (my previous bike was a Bronson v3 size M), but not planning on changing frames in the near future. The top tube length isn't that long though, so I guess I would be pedaling in a more upright position if anything, which is ok.
My major concern is my hands in relation to the steering axis. I don't know from experience but I assume too far behind affects control negatively somewhat.
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Aleksander Pusz
9 months, 1 week ago
I'm 175 and using Carbonda FM909 size L with 490mm reach (120mm fork). My previous hardtail had 480mm reach sagged and I felt fine with 35mm stem and SQlab bar, I was just riding little more upright, that's it. With 12 deg bar I'd just use 35mm stem.
Andrew Major
9 months, 1 week ago
You can look at this a few ways. If you’re trying to achieve the same pressure on your front tire, with the same body position, using a bar with more sweep then you’ll need a longer stem. With either a 12d or 16d bar you’ll likely find you go +1cm.
Personally, I never deliberately lengthened my stems with 12d or 16d bars. I’ve played with stem lengths but not different than I do with more conventional setups.
One thing I will say, and it’s largely geometry dependent (HTA) is don’t automatically fear the negative effective stem length. On my V2 and the Banshee Enigma I’m reviewing right now my bar/stem absolutely puts my hands behind the steering axis. I love it.
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One Imaginary Boy
9 months, 1 week ago
thank you. by "V2" do you mean Hightower?
how is it dependent on HTA? the steeper the more you can go behind the axis?
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Andrew Major
9 months, 1 week ago
No, sorry, V2 is my Waltworks that shows up in a lot of my work.
The slacker the HTA the better in my experience.
If you check out my piece on the Enigma there are so decent shots of my custom bar/stem. It’s designed around a 64-degree (Static) HTA and a negative esl.
Lynx .
9 months, 1 week ago
Just to add my $0.02 to your discussion OIM. When I was first considering moving to a more swept bar, I first tried a Salsa 11 degree and honestly didn't feel much difference, so I ordered the SQ Lab 30X 16 degree bar and had the same thoughts as you, need to lengthen the stem to compensate and I did, but after a couple rides went back to my original stem that I was running with my 9 degree bar.
I'm running the SQ Lab 16* bar on my Kona Unit with a 50mm stem and the steering line/axis is behind the steerer and don't know if that has anything to do with it, but I ride it on our most demanding trails without a worry, very confidence inspiring.
Just recently installed the Salsa 11* on my Phantom after extending the width and am running the same length stem as before, definitely wouldn't consider changing to something longer.
I think that while the bigger sweep does move your hands back, the angle also changes your arms geometry and makes maybe a bit shorter cockpit feel as good as longer with less swept bar.
You can really see the sweep of the 16* on the Unit in the photo below.
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Lynx .
5 years, 4 months ago
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generationfourth
5 years, 3 months ago
Thanks to your article I bought a 12°. Compared to the normal sweep bar I was going to put on my new build the 12° back sweep feels so much better just holding it out in front of you. Also, doesn't look nearly as ridiculous as the photos. I doubt any of my friends will even notice it. I also like that there seems to be some slight flex engineered into it. Wondering why handlebars/frames never go for some compliance.
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Andrew Major
5 years, 3 months ago
Ha, yes the 12° definitely looks a lot more normal than the 16° (most the photos).
‘Stiffer’ has been synonymous with better as long as I’ve been involved with bikes - totally agree that compliance can be beneficial in many situations.
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Lynx .
5 years, 3 months ago
Well, I've had a few good rides on the 16 degree bar on my rigid 29+ Unit and all I can say is that it's a bar, it feels that natural to me, nothing weird, no trouble in tight stuff, at speed, but my thumb is sure loving the lack of pressure being put on it. This bar will stay on my rigid, now to get some rides back on the FS to see if I need to order another one.
Agree with you Andrew on maybe not needing to lengthen the stem to compensate for the bigger sweep as it doesn't require as much elbow bend, so you end up sitting up about the same, although I am running a 60mm now instead of 50mm, but would like to try a 55mm, as I tried the 50mm and the steering seemed quite a bit faster, 60mm a bit slower.
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Andrew Major
5 years, 3 months ago
It's interesting that most riders I've talked to have the same experience. They add 10mm or 20mm of stem length to compensate for the extra back sweep but then end up going shorter. Hopefully get some hours on the new Soma Dream bar in the new year and very curious to see how that extends to a 25° bar.
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Lynx .
5 years, 3 months ago
This comment has been removed.
Aleksander Pusz
5 years, 2 months ago
This comment has been removed.
Michael
4 years, 11 months ago
@Andrew Major, on a new steed I'm thinking about trying these out finally. I've read reviews that state the the stated rise appeared to be much lower than anticipated. As in the 30mm rise was more like other companies 20 or even 15mm. I'm wondering if you could weigh in on that issue Andrew before I decide which rises to order? Judging by the photos it does seem that the 45mm looks more like my Renthal 20mm...
Cheers,
Michael
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Andrew Major
4 years, 11 months ago
Hi Michael it’s not quite that extreme but I’d certainly agree to a point that some riders will want to ‘rise up.’
I replaced a 20mm Renthal with a 30mm (mid) SQLab 12 and 16 and I’d say they’re very similar visually.
The 15mm (low) is not a flat bar but the fit is similar to a 10mm or maybe a bit lower rise.
I’ve never seen the 45mm in person.
Hope that helps!
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Michael
4 years, 11 months ago
Awesome, thanks! Totally helps.
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 11 months ago
From CAD mockup on picture seems like "high" rise bar has real rise about 25mm.
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Michael
4 years, 11 months ago
Yes it I’ve done similar it really does seem low. Perhaps they measure rise from the bottom to the top edge of the bar vs center to center?
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 11 months ago
C-C of bar end is 41. Rise should be measured to center of second bend, so it seems like sqlab is just wrong with their numbers. Ofc picture is not accurate too, so it may be that they indeed measure C-C to bar end...
Lynx .
4 years, 11 months ago
Yeah, I got the 30mm rise version and thought they'd shipped the 15mm rise instead it was so low. Not really as close to a 15mm rise, probably more like 20mm, so if you want some good rise, definitely go for the highest offered.
Still have to say thanks to Andrew and all the rest who did pieces on this (mainly Andrew's) as it's the sweetest bar to date that I've tried for my rigid Unit.
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Michael
4 years, 11 months ago
Thanks for the feedback!
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Vik Banerjee
3 years, 11 months ago
If SQ Labs made an even higher rise version of the 12 and 16 deg bars I'd order them today. I may be an old man. ;-)
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John Keiffer
4 years, 7 months ago
Does anyone really know the difference between the 30x and the 311 bars regarding ride quality and build? I know that the 30x doesn't sweep forward first and the 311 does. They are the same price. Seems like the 311 might be better for me, but I'd like to know they ride just as good as the newer 30x...
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Andrew Major
4 years, 7 months ago
Unfortunately I can’t ride a bar that narrow so no feedback on the 311 here. Would love to try their take on compliant carbon.
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John Keiffer
4 years, 7 months ago
740mm too narrow? That's over 29 inches long. It's only a little less than 1.5 inches different from 780mm. But anyway, I hear you.
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Aleksander Pusz
4 years, 7 months ago
It mainly depends on stem length or more specifically horizontal grip-steering axis distance. If you are on older short bike with longer stem maybe 740 is ok, but on mine 780 is spot on. As I stated before, IHMO 311 is not worth it due to forward offset. If you are ok with shorter bars maybe Ergotec Ergo XXL 700mm 16/5 could be ok for you?
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Andrew Major
4 years, 7 months ago
I used to run wider bars, but these days I find whether it’s 16* or more standard sweep a 780 is ~perfect. The difference between 740mm or even 760mm vs 780 is very noticeable.
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Andrew Major
4 years, 7 months ago
If you’re interested Cam wrote a piece on going to wide bars (and back again) that’s good food for thought: here!
This piece generated some good discussion on bar width too:
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John Keiffer
4 years, 7 months ago
Well I finally made the purchase. I got the 30X alloy bar with 16% sweep and 30mm rise. 780mm seems fine, and I'm lazy so I probably won't ever cut it unless I had a second one. I can't speak to them being very "forgiving", but Andrew says they are so I believe him. I can say that I love the feel and the positions it puts me in. Very pleased with this purchase. (FINALLY) I have a bike that came stock with a short stem, and I've always thought it was probably too short. Since that stem was 35mm clamp and 45mm length anyway, I put on a 60mm stem I had available from a different bike. I think I could go even longer, but for now I'm going to keep riding it the way it is.
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Dan Conant
2 years, 10 months ago
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