REVIEW | EDITORIAL
CushCore Extralight Tire Inserts Are 112 Grams Each
Are You Cross?
I know I should apologize for the clickbait headline, but all's fair in love and war, right? You see, for 2023, Cooper Quinn and I are having a 'friendly' competition to see who can sneak more gravel-riding content past the editor and, well, he's winning! He's winning by a lot. So, I need all the help I can get.
Cooper and I have very different takes on gravel riding, groad riding, all-terrain biking, or whatever you'd prefer to call it. He's out there racing the BCBR Gravel Explorer XLT, revisiting the old Softride debate between suspension stems and suspension forks, rocking Lycra and glasses that cost more than the average commuter bike, and so on. On the other hand, I'm avoiding cars while running errands and getting in shape on a modified mountain bike, with a 16° low-rise bar.
I don't do this kind of gravel riding with other people thing that Cooper is into. Photo: Chris Stenberg
I don't own the proper kit or know these kinds of advanced gravel riding techniques. Photo: Chris Stenberg
I'm more familiar with this part. Choosing tire pressures is as painful as the gravel. Photo: Chris Stenberg
We do agree that good gravel tires offer shockingly good traction climbing and braking until they don't, and evaporate so quickly they make buying ultra-mega-grip mountain bike tires at full pop seem like a bargain. We also agree that going out and hitting the LSD* training on a gravel rig is a fantastic way to improve endurance on the mountain bike for chronically undertrained parents like ourselves.
*Long Slow Distance
Groading is a great way to get out on a bicycle when I don't have time to go for a mountain bike ride. With a decent pace, I can cook myself on my favourite local loop in under 30-mins door-to-door. My rig is very low maintenance, it doubles as my commuter in terms of amortizing the upkeep, and it has me looking forward to being faster for longer on my mountain bike this year.
CushCore Gravel. Optimized for tire widths from 33mm-46mm and rim widths from 19mm-26mm. I'm running 40c Schwalbe G-One tires on i21mm Velocity USA Quill rims.
Both my inserts clocked in at 112 grams each. The last time I remember so few grams making such a difference in how a bike rode was upgrading from 160mm to 203mm rotors in around Y2K.
I install all CushCore setups the same way - inserts on rims first. I pull the valve cores at this point and reinstall them once I've seated the tires.
I don't have a big plastic garbage can at home, so it's Bead Dropper action for the win.
With the valve cores out I typically have no problem seating tires with a floor pump. No exceptions here with the Quill rims and Schwalbe rubber.
I tried to order black tires, but in a 40c G-One this is what I could get. I admit the tan sidewalls, on silver rims, is growing on me.
For me, gravel riding means a combination of crush-covered paths and forest lanes, light trails, slightly more aggressive trails, alleyways, cycling infrastructure, and the odd bit of take-the-lane-and-pray to link it all together. There are curbs to hop or drop, roots and rocks to navigate, and areas of North Vancouver that I've never seen to explore.
If the best parts are that I'm having fun and getting fitter, the worst part of gravel riding is setting tire pressures. It's like Cirque Du Soleil with a gauge as I find balance by letting out that perfect 1/4 psi between tire burping rim strikes and slipping instead of gripping riding up loose climbs or greasy single track.
At the front tire, the extra hundred grams for CushCore means extra traction and a complete lack of rim strikes.
At the rear tire, the extra hundred grams for CushCore means extra traction and a complete lack of rim strikes.
Enter CushCore
The first question is, can I run flat with the CushCore gravel setup? With my combination of i21 rim and 40c tire, the answer is yes-ish. I tried it in my underground parking and there's enough support and volume that I can pedal around. I am; however, not convinced that the tire would survive any proper effort.
I am carrying tire plugs and a pump when I go riding. I do not carry a spare tube. So if and when I do get a proper flat, and have to try and pedal home on the insert, I'll let you know how the experience went and what shape the tire is in afterward.
Can't take the 'mountain bike' out of the rider, and in this case the bike as well. My Waltworks V1 is very much enjoying its next life.
On the right day, it's nice to hike-a-bike up to a quiet urban spot to answer some e-mails or unplug and read a book.
From an install perspective, the CushCore Gravel inserts are similarly easy to set up to the CushCore Trail (XC) inserts with XC rubber. There's certainly less grunting than putting together my CushCore Plus inserts with a 2.8" WTB Vigilante or a CushCore Pro insert with a DoubleDown Assegai.
I was running about twice the recommended tubeless sealant before and I have the same installed now. I'm not counting grams and I've experienced a few tubeless miracles where sealant acted as advertised, so I'm down with having more of a good thing for my setup.
Groad riding is a great use for that shorter-travel dropper on the shelf. Like this 125mm Crankbrothers Highline, I started reviewing in 2016. It's slowed down, but it still works and it's the original cartridge.
I know not everyone's into dropper posts on gravel rigs. For me, and it's true of the CushCore inserts too, it's a fun booster sometimes and for others, it lets me 'Ride Easy' as the Be More Stoked sticker says.
My gravel rig has a dropper post, geometry that's more aggressive than many current hardtail mountain bikes, and a low-rise alt-bar instead of a curlicue. The stem's only 50mm and I'm running flat pedals. It has a front rack, but that's easy enough to remove as are the fenders. Other than the narrow 40c tires how is this not just a mountain bike?
Groad does sometimes seem to be the nexus point for the 'all road bikes are gravel bikes' crowd and the 'all mountain bikes are gravel bikes' crowd. I'm not here to say who is right or wrong. My rig is fast, stable, and fun on pavement, gravel, and light trails. No, it's not anywhere near as fun as riding my mountain bikes on janky local lines but it's much more enjoyable in the situations where I use it. It's a bonus that the experience requires a smaller time commitment and makes me faster and fitter when I do get into the mountains.
When I am getting out on the skinnier tires, a couple of hundred grams of CushCore has made a big difference to my confidence and control. I'd say a bigger difference than on my mountain bikes even. It's worth checking out for riders who can't leave their inner mountain biker at home when heading out on the gravel bike. A pair sells for 150 USD and there's more information at CushCore.
Comments
Tremeer023
1 year, 1 month ago
I'm interested in a CC that isn't a complete nightmare to remove. Here's my recent CC removal horror story...
Maxxis Rekon 2.6, 27.5 on a Raceface Turbine 30mm rim. CC Pro. I also don't have a spare bin lying around just to change a tyre (funnily enough). I don't have a bead dropper either but do have heavy duty metal tyre levers which do everything else. I managed to install it myself, just about.
Anyway, came to remove it last week and after about 30 mins of grappling (fully soaped rim), swearing and injuring my hand, I could not get the bead to break and slip into the centre channel. Had to do the drive of shame to my LBS (a Giant concept store) and paid them £10 to remove it. After 5 mins the guy had to call his boss over for help. Another 10 mins later and they both emerged from the workshop looking sheepish to tell me they were unable to break the bead and could not remove it! I told them I didn't need the tyre (it had 2 plugs in it) so they ended up cutting the tyre off instead.
Thing is, it is a really good insert on the trail. Are the xc CC 's easier to deal with? Can anyone recommend the next closest thing to CC Pro that doesn't require a counselling session for post traumatic stress? Tannus, Rimpact? Thanks, and sorry for the rant.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
You need to get a bead dropper (clearly so does your shop). It’s magical. If you struggle with CushCore installs (or removals) with the dropper I’ll write you a step by step guide personally.
It’s all about space in the tire - on or off - so XC inserts are much easier to work with (as are gravel inserts), but again - Bead Dropper. It’s not about the end that’s on your tire it’s about the end that’s in your hand.
I‘ve installed and removed a lot of CC Pro and Plus inserts. There’s been the odd hard job but it’s always been DH tires that fit tight on rims even without the insert and I’ve never cut one off even when it had bonded to the Gorilla Tape inside.
On my mountain bike, I’m only interested in inserts that allow me to run flat. I’ve installed and removed most options (turning wrenches part time) and some of the ‘easier’ ones are also more awkward. But I’m not riding any I might have to wear home.
Hope that’s helpful! Oh, and if you don’t have a big plastic garbage can - Bead Dropper. And even if you do - Bead Dropper. Magical!
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Tremeer023
1 year, 1 month ago
Thanks for the replies.
Run-flat is why I chose CC and on the trail I honestly couldn't be happier with it. I just haven't tried enough other inserts to know whether to commit to a specific tool, although I guess it's just a good tyre lever for general use.
I did give it a tap with the rubber mallet but was scared of scratching the rim. I look forward to trying it again with my new Bead Dropper :-)
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Cheers! Bead Dropper is great for all stubborn tires. I have a garbage can at work and I still use it regularly in the shop. I’m certain you’ll enjoy it.
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hankthespacecowboy
1 year, 1 month ago
Thanks to your earlier Bead Dropper / CushCore reviews, I bought 3 Bead Droppers with my CushCore inserts; they are the tire levers we should have had all along!
My lady is as obsessed with gardening as I am with bikes; some of the larger plastic planters are great for rim wrestling.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Yeah, I recommend them all the time as gifts for the cyclist who has everything. Even if they already have a Bead Dropper they probably need another one and if not the re-gifting opportunity is prime.
DanL
1 year, 1 month ago
yeah, bead dropper is absolutely critical to a fast install. Garbage bin/Rona bucket and the cushcore live install youtube video to follow made it a 10 min job. But I bet there's a lot riding on how accommodating the rims are?
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grimwood
1 year, 1 month ago
I've had that issue a few times. One solution is to bring it to your buddy with gorilla hands (Duncan). Second option, especially if the tire is toast, is get you tire lever/bead dropper right against the bead, then hit the bead dropper with a hammer. It's worked every time, but I do end up having to re-tape the wheel most of the time.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Toucan is pretty amazing at CushCore sans tools!
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
The worst I’ve even had was on Bontrager wheels using their rubber rim strip instead of tape combined with a Tough Casing WTB tire. It went on fine but when it was time to remove the tire the bead was properly trapped between the rim wall and the rubber rim strip the whole way around. CushCore Pro gave me almost zero room to flex or shift the tire.
As you say, I used a mallet to whack the handle of the Bead Dropper and just punched the bead out the whole way around. It took a bit longer but wasn’t a big deal. I tossed the rubber strips and switched to tape going forward.
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Lu Kz
1 year, 1 month ago
I love that Bontrager plastic rim strip for general setups but any time an insert is going in that Bontrager stuff has to go right away. Too much struggling either at the start or down the line with it.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Sounds like down the line is most common… I talked to one person from a Trek dealer who said they usually toss them for tape at the first tire change - you’re leaving them in unless there’s an insert going in?
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Lu Kz
1 year, 1 month ago
If you're using 49/50 Maxxis tires or any Bonty tire and no insert, the Bonty Rim+Strip+Valve combo is so fast and easy for setting up/maintaining tubeless that if there's no intention to go to an insert or a tire brand with more variation or generally tight tires, I've felt no real reason get away from the Bontrager rim strip until its time for one of the above or a spoke replacement.
For inserts and tight tires I've always found them to be a nightmare for any insert worth running. Usually right away, but even worse if its later. Get rid of them and get some basic tubeless tape of your preferred brand on. Those few millimeters can really add up when it comes to proper inserts.
cyclotoine
1 year, 1 month ago
I held out on the bead dropper thinking I could get by without until I had to deal with a DH casing tire... I waited too long. It's worth every penny. I use tannus on my trail bike. I think it has performance benefits but at a lower weight penalty, obviously the benefits are not as good as full on CC pro.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Tannus is great from the perspective changing how a tire ramps (closer to CushCore XC in this regard - which is great) and also providing rim protection as long as there’s air in the tire.
I’ve installed a lot of Tannus inserts and the two main reasons folks choose them over CC are cost and weight.
On the cost front, both systems effectively last forever. At least that’s my ongoing experience. So amortizing them over rides and time the goal is to make them essentially free.
On the weight front, I find the concern is almost exclusively going from no insert to adding an insert and its academic - scale weight not about the on-trail experience. This isn’t universal, but even when it comes to folks who’ve downsized from CC Pro to CC XC it’s usually about changing ride characteristics not about clawing back grams.
For me, personally, I’m not interested in inserts I can’t pedal home (gently, on the road, at least) with a flat if my plug & pump fails. This is practical (I don’t like changing flats on wet winter days) but also comes from having seen a couple riders exiting the trail network with a pink Tannus insert bandoleered around them dripping Stan’s sealant after they’ve installed a tube - not being that guy is worth some grams.
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IslandLife
1 year, 1 month ago
Just a note on inserts "lasting forever". With Cushcore... (this was the XC version) I found that mine would get a lot of cuts after a period of time and seemed to be losing their rim protective capabilities as the number of cuts increased.
With Tannus, while it doesn't cut up and I thought was going to last forever... after two seasons of riding a set, I started banging my rear rim more and more, then finally destroyed it. I happened to have a new insert that a friend decided not to use and had passed it along to me. Took my old insert out and compared them. While they still looked exactly the same, the old one was substantially more squishy and flexible than the new one which was much stiffer and harder. After installing, support and rim protection that must have been waning over the last month or so of use, was right back where it should have been.
Seems that over time they start to soften up and eventually need replacing. Just one anecdotal story... but worth investigating further by you guys that test this stuff.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Very interesting. I have some friends who use XC inserts and ride hard so I should be able to investigate that.
My multi-year long term experiences are all on CC Pro and Plus inserts. Certainly they don’t look new (lots of little cuts etc) but compared to new inserts they seem to function as new. I will have some fresh Plus inserts coming for a project so I will have a comparison opportunity.
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AlanB
1 year, 1 month ago
The one time I had a real problem with removal was when the tire was cold, as was my workroom. After leaving the wheel overnight in a room warmer than a meat locker I was able to break the bead as expected.
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Tremeer023
1 year, 1 month ago
Good point, thanks. It was cold and I'm sure that didn't help.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Interesting Alan, certainly had not considered temperature.
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JVP
1 year, 1 month ago
Some combos are just murder. I've got one particular wheel where the CC Pro isn't coming off without cutting. Ever. DHR DH on a WTB cheapo i29 assym rim. All my others have been somewhere between easy-peasy and doable. I have the buttplug and all the other tools, and fairly strong hands from trail building.
* I should try a heat gun on it. Wheel needs to be re-taped.
I'm kind of going away from inserts lately on all but my park/shuttle wheelset that doesn't get much use. Just running tougher casings and calling it good. Yeah, inserts are nicer, but they don't change my place in the pecking order.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Gorilla Tape for rim tape? Sounds like the DH tire has bonded to the tape and then with the backing of the insert it can move far enough to overcome the glue.
I’d use my Bead Dropper and a mallet to punch the tire bead under the insert and it should go.
———
I prefer the ride if a lighter casing with an insert over a double-wall without especially with enough air to avoid kissing the rim.
Certainly cheaper and less faff if you can find a tire-alone that you like to ride.
I’m not racing anyone other than myself. But I will admit a reduced patience watching my more frequently flatting friends fix their tires. I’d rather deal with inserts at home.
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JVP
1 year, 1 month ago
Just Stan's tape. Tried hammering with bead dropper, c clamps, standing on the bead and jumping... everything short of cutting. Other tires on these rims were easy, so I think this tire might be out of spec. It's my DH wheelset. I do think setting it in the warm sun (in a few months!) or heat gun and the normal brute-force tricks might be the thing.
Horses for courses on inserts. I definitely like CC Pro for wet DH so I can run 19 psi without fear of ripping the tire off in corners. But for trail bike that does everything including high country epics, trailside flat repair is a hard requirement, so Tannus. Too-low pressure makes the bike feel boring on that stuff anyway. Only had to strap the insert on my bars twice in 3 years - I can live with that vs slow pedal out and getting back to the car way after dark.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
I’ve had some Maxxis DH rubber (usually 27”) go on super-super-tight. I think on the age of ‘Tubeless Ready’ company’s QC/QA passes tires that are on the small side of right.
Let us know how it goes when you finally get it off?
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Franky
1 year, 1 month ago
Pro tip: If you don't have a trash can a spare tire from any car/SUV is about the right size too. I don't have a bead dropper but with a using a few good tire levers and my spare tire I can get cush core pro changed in about 10 minutes
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
That’s an interesting idea. The hub axle just goes through the center of your car rim?
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BadNudes
1 year, 1 month ago
Probably just using the tire, great idea for those of us with a set of seasonal tires hanging around.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Ah! Hadn’t thought about a spare tire being off a rim.
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fartymarty
1 year, 1 month ago
NSGB? Sign me up.
https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/gear-4/topic/mtb-gravel-bike-conversions-132626/. I would be interested to see what others have done and the issues they had.
Andrew i I feel I am subconsciously mirroring you with my recent conversion of my Krampus to a gravel bike. I’ve gone down the drop bar route but have a flat bar option in mine (swapping bar/stem/brakes/shifters and mech) which I need to build up. I'm really liking the variety that this type of bike brings and see where it will go with summer looming.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Cheers Marty!
I didn’t even run drop bars on my last couple of pavement pounders, I don’t like braking on the hoods, I don’t like braking in the drops, and etc. I have multiple hand positions (end of grips, on grips, inside grips) and if I needed more I could handle some inner bar-ends.
Built a gravel-commuter for the Clairebarian as well. We can’t ride all the way to school but we’re going to start doing 50/50 school trips. It’s something she can lock there (versus her mountain bike) and we’re going to do a bunch of exploring when it warms up. Trying to avoid riding with cars but still get the full cycling experience.
Looking forward to Cooper’s next piece too. Going to fun to gravel/commuter up NSMB a bit.
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fartymarty
1 year, 1 month ago
Drops aren't great for braking but they are so fast on the road - I do probably 80/20 road to off road and some reasonable length (40-50 mile) road rides so will take the hit. If I was commuting locally and riding more off road I would take flat bars any day.
I guess gravel is about compromise and finding what works for what you are riding.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
It’s all about use case certainly. If I have time for a long ride without a destination I’m going mountain biking.
I do longer commutes/trips on my rig but they tend to be in bike path and road situations where I prefer to be more upright anyway. And I like the flat bar for cranking out if the saddle and the odd bit of single-track.
But, I’m not trying to sell anyone on a conversion. I started putting straight bars on road bikes when I was commuting for my first shop job over two decades ago, so my bias is well established.
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Cooper Quinn
1 year, 1 month ago
Yeah - it really depends on your specific use case for drop vs flat bars.
That said I don't find any challenges braking with drop bars (other than running out of traction, which... isn't the bars fault!)
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BadNudes
1 year, 1 month ago
Oh my god @trumpstinyhands that drop bar Morphine is going to haunt my dreams/nightmares forever... Thank you.
I like drop bars on long rides because they help you rotate your pelvis a lot more than flat bars or most alt bars, so I can ride a lot longer without saddle and lower back discomfort.
I feel kind of disconnected on the hoods or tops, not that that's always a bad thing, and the drops are low and the lever reach usually isn't very ergonomic, so I understand not loving the level of control/brake feel with drop bars, but I'm usually limited by tire traction before I have a chance to really feel that.
In sort of the same vein, drop bar droppers seem lackluster; you end up in the drops for proper grip and control, with your hands too low to really make use of the added maneuverability. A bit more comfortable on fast and rough downhills, but not the game changer a dropper can be when my hands are high and wide, giving a stable platform to really move around above the bike.
A cool commute deserves a cool commuter bike - very nice Andrew!
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Re. drop-bar droppers the only way to make them awesome is to convert your bike to 1x and then modify your LH brifter to be a dropper remote.
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BadNudes
1 year, 1 month ago
Absolutely, any remote that you need to move your hand to reach is a non-starter. Drop bar droppers have their place no doubt, racing for sure or a blurred lines drop bar ATB thing, but I choose drop bars for longer rides, and those types of bikes are generally more limiting for me in the tires and hand position in a way that more body english doesn't make up for. I'll take the lighter, more comfy post with my drop bars 8.2/10 times.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
I’ll be talking about this in an upcoming gravel piece. My 27.2 Thomson Masterpiece is significant more comfortable than any dropper post, until I want it out of the way.
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Mbcracken
1 year, 1 month ago
I've been rolling with the Tubolight EVO gravel set on my g-road bike. These are really light at 33 grams each. A couple months back, I picked up a rock chip that stuck in the GK SS+ rear. Dropped my PSI from 46psi to ~20psi but the tubolight still allowed me to ride home for the last 3-4 miles. Kept it gentle but better than walking those miles home. I still roll with them but have swapped tires for the ReneHerse Oracle in 48mm. :-)
Cheers, Mike
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Always better to pedal home!
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Cr4w
1 year, 1 month ago
I got the Octamousse inserts for my gravel bike. As a bigger guy, just as with my enduro bike pre-inserts I was choosing between flat protection and ride quality. With inserts I can finally get both. My gravel bike rides 100% better with the inserts. I bet the CC are a bit tougher and more suitable to extreme conditions than the lightweight Octamousse. My gravel bike is more of a road bike extended with 42mm tires, not a monster gravel-bikepacking rig with 50mm tires.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Can’t speak to gravel usage, but the Octamouse doesn’t seem to offer the same rim protection as other options for mountain bikes, cool that the change in volume is working for you. Did you happen to weigh them? Half the CC-GCX?
I’m running 40mm. I get weird looks when I say this, but I’m not out trying to see what the hardest single track is that I can ride this bike down. I know that already (with mountain bike tires installed). This tire size (with CC inserts) seems to be a great compromise between traction up steep/looser gravel pitches and rolling along.
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Cr4w
1 year, 1 month ago
The octamousse gravel inserts weigh about 70g each. They've been perfect for my application.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
So not nearly as big a weight difference as comparing mountain bike inserts - which makes sense.
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Cr4w
1 year, 1 month ago
I thought the mountain bike Octamousse you could run flat?
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Oh yeah? Like run-flat and ride out the trail, or run-flat and pedal home on the road, or run-flat in the underground parking and it doesn’t feel like the rim crunching along too much?
semiSafe
1 year, 1 month ago
Tell me more about the dropper mount for your Flare. Home-brew or available off the shelf? I've run the standard mount, but it's a bit too precarious for MTB use. Does this lower mount position work well?
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
It’s just a fender adapter you can get at any shop. I attach the stock Flare mount to it (minus the rubber strap) using a rotor bolt and then I just shim between the the two so that the Flare mount sits in the proper position when tightened.
The dropper I’m currently testing didn’t play nice so now I have the same mount bolted to one of my fender mounts on my frame. I just changed the washers so the lights still in the right position.
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Niels van Kampenhout
1 year, 1 month ago
Curious what pressures you run in those 40cs with and without inserts?
I put a pair of 38c Gravel King SS on my old commuter and I've been exploring gravel paths and forest trails in the area, mostly pretty mellow but I've tried some rooty XC singletrack and some steep descents as well. I'm kind of impressed with how they perform even at highish pressure running tubes, sure they slip and slide a bit but that's the fun part, isn't it? If I was after ride quality or cornering grip or whatever I'd grab my mountain bike.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
I’m still playing with pressures with the inserts. I’ve gone down to 25psi with the inserts but have been in the 28-30psi range usually.
I started at 40psi without inserts and played with pressure down to 30psi based on others advice, but I’m on a zero rim-strike program on this bike.
I’m not interested in changing tire pressures ride to ride on any of my bikes so I’m always looking for a set pressure where I’m genuinely generally happy. On my Rifty I run 19psi front/rear, on V2 I run 12psi front and 16psi rear, etc.
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*edit: I should state that these pressures come through trial and error and are as read on my pump. I don’t use a fancy separate gauge as I really only care if my tires are accurate ride-to-ride not universally, so build in whatever margin of error on the actual psi reading.
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Niels van Kampenhout
1 year, 1 month ago
Yeah that's quite a bit lower than what I run with tubes in the GKs, lol.
I guess I'm somewhat struggling to follow the logic of going with such a narrow tire on a mountain bike and then going to lengths to squeeze out grip and traction. What would be the downside of slapping on some 2.1 XC tires except you can now no longer call it a gravel bike?
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Adding the CushCore didn’t change anything about how fast and efficient the tires roll. I’ve ridden this bike (V1) as a mountain bike with 2.8” tires front and rear, as an ‘ATB’ with 2.6” semi-slicks, with a pair of 2.0” XC tires on carbon wheels, and with this setup. The 40c setup is way faster and more efficient.
I’m not ‘mountain biking’ on my gravel rig, just linking stuff together with light trails some of which are a bit greasy this time of year. I’m balancing traction - particularly on the steep gravel climbs home from work - and efficiency with reliability.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Double post for a fully separate response…
If I was running 2.1” XC rubber for commuting I’d run CushCore XC inserts anyway. They’re a one time purchase - amortizing them over forever - and with a 2.1” tire they work okay to run-flat so there again I’m not carrying tubes or changing tires out and about. So next time I slash a tire in the DNV’s shitty detritus clogged bike lanes I can just pedal home.
What’s the negative of running inserts? Weight? Who cares? The trade off is a nicer riding more resilient bicycle.
(I still prefer the 40c rubber for the application).
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Niels van Kampenhout
1 year, 1 month ago
I wasn't questioning the inserts, just the narrow tires. If you're happy with them, that's the only thing that counts of course.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Just coming full circle on tires. Today I rode a mix of pavement and gravel to work, then pedaled across the Iron Workers bridge to ~ Main & King George in Vancouver, then thanks to my bike’s MTB-wide fork crown and the spaced down fender I tossed it on a buddy’s North Shore Rack for a lift home.
Certainly way more pleasant on the 40c Schwalbes than it would have been on MTB rubber or road slicks and it only clears the NSRack with a full fender because it was a mountain bike.
Niels van Kampenhout
1 year, 1 month ago
@Andrew:
That's cool. Extreme Commuting, even shuttling involved! You should try Maxxis' EXCO casing in MaxxGroad compound ;-)
Personally I've found that my average speed and fatigue don't differ much between say 2.25 Racing Ralphs and narrower GC (Gravel Country™) tires on the road so that's where I was coming from, but we are all different.
fartymarty
1 year, 1 month ago
Niels - I'm running 45mm Riddlers on my conversion and they're well fast on the road at 50 psi tubeless. I’ve only done a little off road so far and they seem grippy enough.
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Cooper Quinn
1 year, 1 month ago
2.1s are still easily a gravel tire - that's about 55c.
And it's really not about width - tread, casing... what they're attached to and how you're using them.😉
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
Casing is king. So supple but I can’t imagine how long (short) they’d last mountain biking.
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bushtrucker
1 year, 1 month ago
Yeah 2.1" is actually my preferred gravel width. Mostly because the roads here in Southern Australia are very corrugated and lower pressures than what you can run with a 40mm ish tyre makes a huge difference. I hadn't considered inserts for gravel riding prior to reading this article thouhg, despite running one on the rear of my hardtail for the last year.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
I could be happy with supple 2.1” tires if it wasn’t for all the pavement I pound. The 40c tires are quieter and more sprightly for longer road rides.
khai
1 year, 1 month ago
I love the Bead Dropper, and actually went out and bought a trash can specifically for mounting tyres after a few battles. One trick I haven't seen before is using a small strap looped around the handle of the can to hold the opposite end of the rim down while forcing the bead under the insert. I had actually contemplated cutting down the can maybe 30cm from the top for ease of portability and so that I could actually use the rest of it as a trash can - but I do like the working height of the full can.
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slimchances57
1 year, 1 month ago
Tubolights and Vittoria Airliners are lighter, easier to install and less expensive than Cushcore...on XC bikes I can run down @ 13 psi and on CX/Gravel 40-45's low 20's psi with Tubolights. Stupid traction and great ride quality fro nearly any tire
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Andrew Major
1 year, 1 month ago
The way I see it, the cost difference on a products that effectively last forever gets amortized out over many rides. So for inserts, up front cost savings aren’t much if a reason to choose on or the other.
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Certainly, for mountain biking and groad riding, there are many options for lighter tire inserts and it’s up to an individual rider what’s the best balance of grams v. insert for them. There are always trade offs though - which are very rider dependent.
For example for some riders some inserts deaden the ride too much (which can be compensated for with lighter tires) for extra protection they don’t want/need, while others may find that lighter inserts don’t offer enough protection or lack some other features (like run flat). Etc.
But I think the key to discussing inserts is recognizing that the various options are at least very different varieties of apples.
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