Beggars Would Ride
Bootstrap Blues
Once upon a time, I used to believe that if I just tried harder at something, I would improve. This is a pretty easy assumption to make, and most of us at some time or another buy into the concept. Try harder, do it more, get better at it. It’s an incredibly reductive simplification of the 10,000 hour principle that Malcolm Gladwell teed up in Outliers. There is no shortage of willing dissenters ready to tear Gladwell a new asshole these days for coming up with the 10,000 hour principle, claiming it is vague, simplistic, and inaccurate, but since I am vague and simplistic myself, I still consider it a good way to parse the combination of discipline and experience needed to become an expert at something.
This year, I have spent a couple hundred hours so far attempting to get better at riding again. Working from the assumption that the lifelong bank account tallying more than 10,000 hours of past experience would serve as some sort of springboard to greater fitness and a more refined skillset, has, however, proven to be erroneous. Fitnesswise, I have not gotten any faster. Maybe I am fitter than I was this time last year, but I am still somewhere probably less than half as fast as I was a couple decades ago.
That’s just muscle and lungs. When it comes to reflexes, there’s a whole other insidious decline taking place. I still have not learned to balance point wheelie worth a damn. I still can’t jump. Wheelie drops strike a weird note of anxiety and caution that did not used to be present. And in general, my balance feels off. I am getting less flexible. My reflexes are slowing. I can feel this. In the past month I have clipped trees four times with my handlebars. My line choice and wheel placement still seem okay for the most part, so I would love to blame the 810mm wide bars on the test bike I’ve been riding, but I suspect it’s something more than just that.
In a nutshell, I’m getting old. Not the first time I’ve mentioned this. Probably won’t be the last.
The wattage is leaving the cottage, and I am having to reluctantly face the fact that if I want to salvage and hoard the atrophying remains of my ability to produce power I will have to both lower my expectations and start to lift weights. And be more diligent about core strength. And stretch. And do yoga. And always wear sunscreen. And remember to take my magnesium. And, and and… the list of shit that is now required on just a maintenance and recovery basis is beginning to seem daunting. All this in an effort to just stay mobile and agile enough to enjoy riding bikes without feeling like an old cripple. Trying to get fast-ish again, on top of this ever-growing daily checklist of just trying not to fall completely apart? Oof. Seems like a big ask.
That’s when some internal voice, the same one that would whisper in my brain 30 years ago and tell me to just bite down on the pain and try harder, says; “Bucko, you’re getting soft is all. Quit staring at the pudgy roll where your belly button used to be, and do something about it. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, man!”
See, 30-year ago me is generally not someone who should be listened to, because his decision making skills were questionable, at best.
And that’s when I realize that my internal voice is a fucking idiot.
Let’s pretend we have bootstraps. All of us. Bootstraps are those little tongues on the front and rear of a pull-on boot upper that help facilitate getting that boot pulled all the way onto your foot. That’s their job. Now, sit down, wearing your boots with bootstraps. From that sitting position, grip your bootstraps firmly, and pull yourself into a standing position.
How’d that work out for you?
Funnily enough, helping lever you into a standing position is NOT the job of a bootstrap. This act – pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps – is, in fact, physically impossible. Culturally speaking, there is a perverse but kind of beautiful irony to the statement.
Ever since the appointment/anointment of a certain conservative vice-presidential nominee who was brewed up in Peter Thiel’s underground lab and who wrote an incredibly bad book that at once denounced all the stereotypes of the Appalachian poor while also reinforcing every single cliché, I’ve had bootstraps on my mind. Because that whole book – Hillbilly Elegy – is basically an extended “look at me, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps” metaphor. It loudly trump-ets that the poor of this country are there because they are lazy, and if they could just muster the same moxie as the author, if they could just “pull themselves up by their bootstraps,” then they could transport themselves out of the cycle of poverty and desperation they find themselves mired in. It’s the American Dream. If you work hard enough, then you will prosper. Suggesting otherwise, that there might be greater socio-economic tides at work, that there might even be strategies in place specifically to ensure that the downtrodden remain down and trodden, well, that’s just un-American. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and quit blaming others for your shiftless misfortune.
Now, as has already been established, pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps is a physical impossibility. The origins of the phrase are varied and a little murky, but all of them point to this salient fact. It was used in satire; in an 18th century German tale, Baron Von Munchhausen pulled himself out of a swamp by yanking upward on his own hair (hence the image at the top of this piece). The American retelling allegedly supplanted bootstraps for hair. Throughout the 1800s, the phrase would appear when referencing an absurdity; “And the man who violates it in argumentation, is to the eye of enlightened reason guilty of as gross an absurdity as he who attempts to raise himself over a fence by the straps of his boots.” ~ Biblical Repertory and Princeton Review, July 1840
Sometime around when the United States was slipping into the Great Depression, the phrase lost its irony. Maybe people couldn’t understand the dark humor of James Joyce in Ulysses; “…others who had forced their way to the top of the lowest rung by the aid of their bootstraps.” Whatever the reason, the phrase crossed the Rubicon and became firmly entrenched in the dialect of the American dream; Prosperity For All Through Self Determination And Self Improvement.
I'll just leave this here...
The fact remains though, that no matter how many people earnestly exhort us to do it, pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps is still impossible. A farmer can’t pull himself over a fence by his bootstraps, the cold and brutal reality for a vast number of the poor in this country is no matter how diligently they pull it will not be effort enough to raise them from their circumstances, and it damn sure isn’t going to help a mountain biking burnout looking down the barrel at his sixties.
You may have been wondering if I would ever get around to pulling this back onto the rails and talking about bikes. I know I was. So, we’ve determined that my inner voice is not a trustworthy one. Or at least, his motivational metaphors need work. But we are not done with the bootstrapping yet.
In much the same way that I am finding myself interrogating every piece of political rhetoric that gets shoved down my throat in an election year, I am revisiting and questioning all my past assumptions about work and reward, about my own physiology, about how I learn, what I respond to psychologically and how that differs more and more from what I respond to physically. The old “ride harder, get faster” playbook needs some revision. The new playbook includes “measure hard efforts carefully, rest more, do other things, try not to break a hip.” Churn in a pile of self-talk that cautions against putting too much stock into hokey aphorisms and battered clichés.
Labor weekend (what was I just saying about hokey aphorisms and battered clichés?) is in the rearview mirror, and there is a quiet clock ticking in the high country as the very first Aspen leaves begin to turn. I spent the whole summer on the struggle bus, as far as my riding is concerned, and at times it really has felt like there’s nowhere to go but down from here. Except on Saturday, as I spent two solid hours in the pain cave chasing a rider in his mid-sixties who was just ripping my legs clean off uphill and then dropping me on every descent, I felt these little epiphanies. I was going faster than when I first rode these trails four months ago. I wasn’t gasping desperately for air even though we were 10,000’ above sea level. I could keep enough in reserve to punch up the little lunges instead of just stalling awkwardly. I was looking down the trail instead of at my front wheel. Tiny little tells. Almost undetectable, these were signs of improvement.
Better late than never...
The days of coming off the couch and Double Secret Probation Training myself into shape in a month are gone. Probably for the best. I shoulda learned these lessons decades ago, but learning slowly is still preferable to remaining a dumbass forever. I’m not pulling myself up by my bootstraps, would probably just throw my back out anyway. No. Instead, I’m reaching for that ADA compliant grab rail and avoiding any unnecessary twisting. I may never get fast again, but I’m a long way from dead yet. Lift with the legs, not the back. Don’t forget the sunscreen.
Comments
Andy Eunson
3 days, 9 hours ago
The important thing to remember about aging is to do so gracefully. You won’t win. We should absolutely keep moving, go to the gym, see our medical professionals, be happy we can still do a lot of things but you will have to tone it down.
I see people usually men out training hard. Guys in what looks like they are middle aged. Kind of a misnomer I suppose because if one kakcked at 44, you were middle aged at 22ish. Anyway they often don’t look like they are having fun. Pain face and shit. Too busy trying hard to smile and have a chat. What are they trying to prove? It’s like an athletic equivalent to a comb over. (I haven’t used a comb in 35 plus years) Don’t get me wrong I think we should all push hard as it’s good for us. Don’t be ashamed or make excuses for lesser performance. We’re old. Or getting old and you can’t change that. Do so with dignity.
You young folks. Grow that hair long while you have it. Do stupid shit now because you can heal better when you’re young but also remember that injuries may come back to haunt you in your old age. We look down the trail to see what’s ahead, we should do that in life too. But not too much as you have to live now as well.
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Mike Ferrentino
3 days, 9 hours ago
As a wise man once said to me; "Everything in moderation. Including moderation."
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 8 hours ago
I love the comb over analogy. That's apt.
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Lynx .
1 day, 12 hours ago
Andy, absolutely agree, people don't seem to know how to accept and age "gracefully" and companies are only too happy to make products that helped them feel like it's not happening, promising lots of BS. It's why I despise the modern trend towards motors on mountain bikes, just accept that 2 hours in the saddle won't net you 20 miles and 4k ft of climbing, accept that you might now get 12-15 miles and 1000-1500 ft of climbing, but you're out and it's all under you own power, YOU did it, not some motor and you still got out for the same amount of time to help breath in the fresh air and clear your head.
Also they encourage to rush, rush, rush of modern society, chill out, take your time, feel the burn of the climb, relish in the well earned DH, "stop and smell the roses", you're only here for a short while, enjoy the beauty that there is too, not the hustle and bustle of materialism rat race that's been forced upon by those who want to keep more down trodden and unhappy so they can make big profits.
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Coiler
1 day, 6 hours ago
My sister is a physio therapist that works primarily with elderly patients. She says that hands down the most important thing you can do to improve late life quality of life is to lift weights, and that many elderly people have huge physical issues due to a sedentary life.
I used to be an avid gym goer, but in the last few years I have enjoyed it less and less. But I still go! I used to want to be big strong and look good, now I just want to feel good now, and feel good later in my life.
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Mark
3 days, 10 hours ago
A well balanced strength training routine done anywhere from 2-4 times per week is probably the single best thing people can do to increase the quality of their life, especially as they age. If anyone has any questions just ask and I can tell you what you need to know.
https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/health-and-fitness-23/
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tmoore
3 days, 9 hours ago
That and "Don't Let The Old Man In"
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Lynx .
3 days, 7 hours ago
It's the "doing" that's the hard part Mark, not the will. A lot of people have some free weights at home, but mostly nothing's setup or the bench is now a clothes wrack, so getting it all sorted/ready to use deters a lot, that's why people tell others to join a gym, everything's setup and waiting and you pay for it, so you'll feel obliged to use it, but then most don't do that either, so I tend to try and stick to doing heavy labour type work with maybe some free weights thrown in if I can get an area sorted.
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Mark
3 days, 6 hours ago
Totally, and you can say that about anything. The good news is that as little as 30 minutes, two times per week, with some judiciously curated exercises, will give a majority of people all the benefit they really need for maintaining a good quality of life and/or benefitting them for their other activities. And of course people can train harder if they want.
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Timer
2 days, 2 hours ago
Fair enough, and I enjoy the many benefits of moderate strength training. But I also believe it is better not to overpromise regarding time needed.
Those 60 minutes of gym time require at least twice that in time investment if being honest and counting changing, showering and getting to and from the gym (what about warming up?)
And that’s assuming you already dialled in your workouts, need no instruction and learn no new exercises.
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Jerry Willows
3 days, 7 hours ago
good strength training by using a shovel and a rake.... minimal cost and the trails will love you for it.
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Lynx .
3 days, 4 hours ago
This 100% for me and why I'm "lacking" in body strength right now, haven't been out doing trail work, building trails etc., manual labour isn't over rated, although be careful trying to lift very heavy rocks, you can injure yourself ;-)
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Mark
3 days, 4 hours ago
Trail building is a good activity, but it's not a replacement for a balanced strength training program. Two 30 minute sessions of trail building per week are not going to replicate the benefits of two 30 minute strength training sessions. In fact, the strength training will do more to benefit the trail building that the other way around.
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Jerry Willows
3 days, 3 hours ago
I think they compliment each other.... I bet most builders are out there for 3 hours at least. Hiking/biking in is another benefit.
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Mark
3 days, 3 hours ago
They do compliment each other, but taking that small amount of time from building to strength train is going to have way more benefit than using it to trail build. What you can achieve in 30 minutes in the gym is going to be far more than what you could achieve on the trail. Bump that up to 60 minutes and the benefits are even bigger.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 2 hours ago
I'm sure there's an opportunity here for the two of you to combine efforts - trailside workout tips for builders you can carry out during your next maintenance day.
(ham sandwiches recommended for recovery food)
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Jerry Willows
3 days, 2 hours ago
that's something I cannot get "behind"....
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Pete Roggeman
2 days, 22 hours ago
Haha haha. Getting deep into old nsmb memes now.
Lynx .
2 days, 10 hours ago
30 minutes :-O Crap the shortest I'm ever out doing trail work is like, maybe 2 hours, but would say more like 3+ hours and if it's building/fixing trail where there's rocks to move, big trees/branches to cut and move, serious work with the pick and trail tool on the dirt/trail that's some serious workout. Not saying that a few seasions with actual free weights a week wouldn't benefit and is easier maybe to accomplish, but IMHO, nothing beats good old manual labour where you're using your entire body, naturally - gyms were invented because people stop doing manual labour and weren't getting their normal, natural exercise needed.
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Mark
2 days, 9 hours ago
The time efficiency you can achieve with a good strength training program can be pretty important considering most people have busy lives.
I think the average person has misconceptions on what exactly strength training is, or can be. It’s not just about big muscles or having a big bench press or squat, it can be the path to giving people their life back and the ability to do simple tasks like getting out of bed, standing up from a chair or being able to climb a flight of stairs without holding onto the handrail. Manual labour type stuff can be good in helping to increase fitness, but the gym can do that in less time and safeguard your body from potential injuries you could pick up in manual labour work. It’s not rare for guys that have done manual labour type jobs all their lives to have limited mobility later in life due to the wear and tear on their bodies they’ve accumulated over their working life.
Honestly I can’t stress this enough, but a regular strength training routine is a critical component of living a quality life.
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Karl Fitzpatrick
1 day, 5 hours ago
For me, trail maintenance sessions are as much about another way to keep strong as it about producing something that isn't just a 'physique'. Also, being outside means I know where I'd rather be spending my valuable time.
As others have said here in various ways, time is the only thing none of us have enough of. I do sporadic press ups, pull ups, and squats but I hate being cooped up so it's outside for me. Preferably with a grubber, shovel or rake in my hand.
YDY
GB
1 day, 21 hours ago
Gaining physical, mental and "spiritual " benefits from the physical activity of mountain biking and trail building I understand and participate in. Gyms are work in an institution that is a less than healthy environment compared to the forest .
Self improvement is very good for our health. Including weight lifting.I prefer to do things in an enjoyable organic setting . For cross training: kayak, trail running, alpine climbing , rock climbing, swimming , hiking. You get the idea .
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Lynx .
1 day, 12 hours ago
100% agree GB. Yesterday I was cutting the grass on a big property next to my brother I "keep, had finished it and was cutting my brothers lawn when the spring tensioner on the cutter broke, so I parked the tractor, but had noticed a lot of the trees had very low hanging branches that interfered with driving the 3/4 tractor under, so I first went to the hardware store and found a replacement spring, then passed through home and grabbed my trail saw and cutlass and headed back to my bros place and proceeded to prune those trees.
One I had to actually go up in as a big branch had broken off, but not completely and was hanging down, it is a prickle tree and full of black ants, but I had to get up there to cut it down and it was some work, but I did, then did a lot of reaching up to cut other branches, to top it off, air temp was 32C, feels like somewhere around 40C and let me tell you, today, I absolutely feel it all over, every part of me was used, such a workout, open air, no enclosed ACd place full of other people there who don't want to be, possibly sick, the best.
Forgot to add, don't own a car, so it was pedal to the store, home and back, so a decent little about 12 mile bit of commuting.
Also, this is why I love riding my rigid, you can ride pretty much anything you can on a suspended bike, you just do so slower, but you get an absolute full body workout.
Lynx .
1 day, 4 hours ago
While I was out I thought of one good thing about doing actual gym/free weight work and that's the ability to focus on your weaker parts, say left arm if you're right handed etc., because for the life of me, I most definitely am seriously one hand dominant and it actually physically shows.
I do try to do things with my other hand and it sort of works out if it doesn't require much coordination, but if it does, like when wood working and using my hand plane or saw accurately, just don't have the coordination, partially most likely because it is weaker the my dominant one.
Oh and just FYI, if you want a great hobby, that requires serious focus, let's you settle your mind and that's one hell of a work out if you stick strictly to hand powered tools, try wood working, amazing amazing workout, just try ripping down a 2" thick piece of purple hart more than a few inches if you don't believe me :-D
Mammal
3 days, 6 hours ago
I fully agree, although not as qualified as some, coming in at 44yo.
I've historically only really relied on my mountain biking time to prepare me for any random physical activity that's required of me, bikes or otherwise. That became less and less effective over a 12 year period, until I injured my hip pretty badly about a year ago (non-fitness related). Doing early morning physio, just because that was the only time I could do it, taught me the value of consistently waking up with physical effort, and that I was fully capable of rebuilding. After I was healed up, I turned my physio routine into a strength and cardio routine, and a year later, I'm feeling amazing in my body. I don't think I'll ever turn back, as I'm going to need this momentum to carry me into the next couple decades at least. For a guy who's never been "into working out", it's been eye-opening to say the least.
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Perry Schebel
2 days, 21 hours ago
holy, this old bastard forum is lively. *waves to fellow elders*
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Ziggy
3 days, 8 hours ago
Here is what I think about aging as a mountain biker (I’m a few years behind Mike): All the infirmities, old injuries etc. become strengths if you change the goal from faster/ more progression to smoother. I am vastly smoother at 53 than I was at 23 in no small part due to these “weaknesses” becoming strengths if they are used as an enhanced sensor network to let me know if I’m riding smooth or not. Pain becomes a wonderful gift. Icing on the cake is that I occasionally surprise myself with how fast/ skillfully I’m riding.
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Andy Eunson
3 days, 5 hours ago
Me too. I work on skills that aren’t too potentially injurious. Injury at 66 is far different than 30 years ago. One of the things I enjoy about skill sports is improvement. I think my skiing is improving but I’m not willing to ski steep narrow chutes anymore or ride trails with big jumps. Ironically old school black rated steeps are slow and therefore kind of safer than high speed flow trails.
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Coiler
1 day, 6 hours ago
100%. I used to find speed on trails by just riding faster, absorbing bumps and really pushing the bounds of control. Now I really focus on smoothing out the trails, picking better lines, and I am ending up being faster and also enjoying it alot more!
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fartymarty
3 days, 17 hours ago
Daily* yoga is working for me. The missus has got me into it and it's now become a daily routine. I'm still as unflexible as a fridge but it's getting better. Plus the breathing techniques help and you can use them when riding. There is a ton on youtube but we've been doing the monthly Yoga with Adriene's and working our way through the old seasons.
* with the exception of ride nights.
I'm not sure if it has made me faster but it will hopefully let me ride for many more years.
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Lynx .
3 days, 12 hours ago
I tried yoga, not daily though, just weekly and it didn't seem to do it for me, but daily stretching, especially after a ride, DEFINITELY helps loads and is something I have to force myself to remember to do when I'm just in and not feeling tight and cramped, but in fact loose and lith - no don't grab a bath, sit down and have something to eat, check NSMB etc and then a couple hours later when things start to tighten, then stretch, do it now, 20-30 minutes and you'll feel even better as the hours tick past and the body cools.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 8 hours ago
Doing anything once a week is better than not doing it, but I've always held onto an internal adage that if you don't do something* at least three times a week, it's unreasonable to expect measurable improvement. This probably first started with some sport or training resource but I think it works as a decent rule of thumb. Anyway, I'm no yoga expert and I know I should do more, but I do know that when I've done it once a week, it was like a super-charged stretch, no more, no less.
Stretching or yoga as often as possible is almost like a cheat code, though.
*most things - of course there will be exceptions
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Lynx .
3 days, 7 hours ago
Yeah, sorry Pete, let me clarify, the once a week yoga was along with trying to do some of it at home along with regular stretching, so not really just once a week, just going to an actual class once a week - maybe it was the wrong type of yoga for me. This was a few years back when I was 37, riding 5 days a week, 6 rides (2 mountain, 4 road) and the fittest I've ever been, 41bpm HR.
Most definitely agree, the more and often you can stretch, the better you feel and easier things are, definitely like a free cheat code, but damn if I remember until I'm sore or stiff :-\
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
I heard "3 times a week equals maintain"
"4 times a week equals train" as in getting better
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Morgan Heater
2 days, 7 hours ago
I think it really depends on the skill/strength you're pursuing. Stretching can obviously be done super regularly, or manual practice, or cornering drills for instance. Pure power workouts can require 2 full days of rest to get good results.
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Adrian Bostock
3 days, 11 hours ago
I cringe at yoga culture but I agree with you. Though for me yoga is more pain management then athletic gains.
when it comes to riding bikes. I am not getting faster and I no longer like to suffer, but I am getting better. slowly.
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Adrian Bostock
1 day, 8 hours ago
Just to add a couple thoughts to this. Yoga is not so much about flexibility as it is about mobility, strength, balance and learning how your body works in general. Those things some what equal flexibility but even after years if regular yoga practice, I am still not flexible.
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Mark
1 day, 4 hours ago
There are a lot of things that affect flexibility, including bone structure, length/location of soft tissues, condition of soft tissues (incl fascia) and the CNS. There are small organelles in the muscle cells called muscle spindles that help to restrict flexibility or range of motion (ROM) and there has been some work to compare the ROM of people before and after anesthesia to show that when people are "out" their ROM often increases, sometime dramatically so. So it's theorized, that flexibility is actually less about our body's structure and more about CNS control.
One of the most important things to consider in physical fitness is that the body is highly adaptive to its environment, and this seems to be particularly so when it comes to flexibility. Generally, people that are more active and move their body through larger ROMs on a regular basis (multiple times per day) tend to have better flexibility than people that don't. So, yoga, pilates, strength training, etc can all help in terms of improving flexibility, but if these are done fairly infrequently compared to your daily activities then one's overall improvement may be limited. I notice this a lot in trying to help people improve their posture; if the majority of their waking hours are spent hunched forward in a chair (office, couch, etc) and they are not actively trying to correct that, then a few minutes per week spent on corrective exercises is going to have limited benefit.
From a stretching perspective, proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF) type stretches tend offer some of the greatest improvement in flexibility. Part of this seems to be based on the CNS factor. PNF stretching involves doing a static stretch, then contracting against the muscle(s) being stretched, relaxing and then stretching again. PNF type stretching, when performed regularly, seems to have the most benefit in terms of producing a consistent increase in flexibility.
https://www.physio-pedia.com/Proprioceptive_Neuromuscular_Facilitation
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TristanC
3 days, 12 hours ago
I am a young guy (31) who regularly rides with older guys (60+) and they all tell me the same thing, lift weights and it will pay off big time in the long run. Larry says, "do your squats."
I like the rocketry definition of bootstrapping a lot more than the socioeconomic version. A rocket needs its propellant pumped to the engine. This pump runs off the exhaust gases from that engine - so it can't run until the engine is running, which needs the pump to run. To get the whole thing started, there's a little charge of propellant that kicks off the whole system with a bang, the bootstrap. Instead of "pulling yourself up, impossibly," it's more of a "here's a kick in the pants to get you started. Now go out there and do your thing."
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
the naysayers will say that sounds like socialism
but I agree, many people will do well with a little bit of help from others and will then be able to pay if forward in the future
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Cr4w
3 days, 9 hours ago
I've taken up a few new things in the last ten years the biggest difference compared to riding is there is excellent instruction available. Want to take up kiteboarding, surfing or skiing? Absolutely take a lesson. When I was growing up mountain biking was a fringe activity and we were all getting there with bravado and trial and error with some of us being tougher and more determined than others. Now you can skip a lot of that with great instruction.
But to your point, bootstraps now are about smart maintenance and cross-training to stay fit and capable as long as possible. For me that's the cost of doing business if I want to keep riding at this level. Heavy slow lifting for sheer strength and bone density, some more varied training to encourage adaptability and intensity and pilates or yoga to keep it all moving. And mobility work every morning because now I have to "pay" to start the day as limber as I used to. Now I do all this to keep riding and for people to say something inane like "you're so lucky to be so fit at your age" while they surrender their capacities one by one without a fight.
One thing that's happening now is that my fitness durability is way down. I used to be able to do nothing for weeks and just pick up where I left off. Now if I miss a week it's like starting from scratch so I'm super motivated to never stop. If anything I back off a bit when I'm feeling fatigued. Better to be sore from training than sore from my body falling apart due to disuse and age, and that's a choice.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 8 hours ago
Forgive the intrusion of golf into the chat, but...I'm currently down in Nashville and snuck out to play 18 yesterday (in Kentucky, actually). It's 30º+ and humid here right now so I never bothered thinking I'd bring riding gear and try to find a bike.
Anyway...semi hilly course, the kind of place where they just assume everyone will take a golf cart. Raised eyebrows when I declared I'd be walking (walking 18 holes is about 10 kms, if you carry your bag, that's like taking a 30-lb pack on that hike). Two different guys commented on it. One was 'you're a good man for walking". He was what you'd typically assume - 50s or 60s, beer-bellied and I'd assume fairly sedentary other than golfing in a cart once or twice a week, cooler full of CL Smooths. The other guy was in his 70s, slim and healthy looking. He was in a cart, too, but HE said 'I remember when I'd walk every time I golfed'. And he looked like he still could, easily, but as I said it was hot and muggy and his friends were riding in carts.
Golf isn't MTB, but the same attitudes prevail. Riding has helped me stay fit but so does not taking shortcuts elsewhere, like riding in a cart, or taking an escalator when stairs are an option. Day to day, small things. Over time, huge difference.
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Jotegir
3 days, 5 hours ago
There's a guy who has to be no less than 60 at our local 9-hole who jogs between every shot and every hole, several times per week, all season long (and our 9-hole will open in February if the ground is firm and there's no snow). Sure makes me feel like a sack when I'm in the clubhouse loading up on a giant breakfast before a bike park or ski day.
I appreciate that golfers use the term "snuck out" to play 18 holes knowing that it's typically a three to four hour event, especially if walking.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 4 hours ago
Ha! That's right. But I did play faster on foot than all the other people in carts ;)
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Cr4w
3 days, 3 hours ago
So ebikes are the golf carts of the mountain bike world?
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 2 hours ago
I knew someone would pull out that analogy. But no, speaking as someone with experience in all four corners of that comparison, e-biking is a lot closer to regular biking than walking is to taking a golf cart.
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Mike Moore
3 days, 8 hours ago
I'm sitting here in an overpriced shoulder sling because 58 year old me was trying to be 12 year old me. When I went to see the Ortho doc, he was impressed I got hurt mountain biking "at your age", wasn't sure if I was supposed to say "Thank you" or "F*ck you". I have 2 titanium hips from 40 years of skateboarding. Like a big chunk of "us", pain seems to have been part of my fun time most of my life. Recovery DOES take longer, I'm NOT as fast or flexible (no more skating - frowny face), in fact...I'm flagrantly OLD(er). What's the alternative? Pickle Ball? Pass. I TRY to ride smarter. I TRY to pay attention to the creaks and moans any of my still good parts make. Most of all I keep riding, at the end of the day it's what keeps the smiles on.
I'm reminded of an old joke in which a young man visits a brothel. The sex worker (not sure on current safe words) upon seeing the young man's "equipment" asks "Who do you think you're going to please with that thing?" The young man says, "Me".
So that, except replace "young man" with "upwardly middle aged man", and replace "equipment" with "riding", and replace "sex worker" with any nimrod who might think I'm not doing it right. I'm happy with it.
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Lynx .
3 days, 8 hours ago
Mike Moore, that made me chuckle, oh and t\he appropriate response to your doc or anyone elses "at your age" is definitely Fvck You, most definitely.
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Lynx .
2 days, 10 hours ago
Hey Embadude, thanks for your neg rep, guessing that you're a doc or one of those a$$holes who say shit like that, so, from the bottom of my heart, go Fvck Yourself !!!
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Morgan Heater
3 days, 3 hours ago
Pickleball is pretty fun though.
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
except as an old person, I find it too loud
in the 1970s there was another half court racquet game where you would keep the vinyl cover on your tennis racquet and play with a regular tennis ball
I saw it on CHiPs
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chacou
3 days, 10 hours ago
> Labor weekend (what was I just saying about hokey aphorisms and battered clichés?) is in the rearview mirror, and there is a quiet clock ticking in the high country as the very first Aspen leaves begin to turn.
Yeah it might snow up high soon, but around BV, the "Banana Belt" of Colorado, the trails are just about to get good with cooler temps and hopefully some moisture. Pre-season just wrapped up, MTB season is kicking off, and with football on TV and schools around the country back in session the summer crowds on trails should thin out. This is the best time of year to find some trail gold!
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 7 hours ago
Fall riding in Colorado has always looked special. Going to have to make that happen one of these years.
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Lynx .
3 days, 7 hours ago
It most definitely is Pete, Early September once all the kids are back in school, temps have dropped to a high of around 15C, might get up to 20C and the humidity is really low, so feels extra cool, only issue you run into is the altitude, but that can be somewhat countered by upping your fitness.
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Adrian Bostock
3 days, 8 hours ago
as much as I am annoyed with excuses many people come up with for not doing the very basics life maintenance, diet, exercise, rest, the idea of bootstraps largely ignores privilege. Conversely using terms like “they” and “the government” instantly out you as someone who is screaming at the clouds. There is a surprising amount of cross over between the two.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 7 hours ago
Yes. But but but...is having the time and energy to scream at clouds also considered a privilege?
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Jotegir
3 days, 4 hours ago
>Hey, someone's at the door for you Adrian!
>Oh? What does it want?
The future if we eliminate the term 'they'.
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
he is not talking about that "they"
you know the one where you can't tell if it is singular or plural
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roil
3 days, 7 hours ago
Don't compare yourself to others. It's a fools game on every level.
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Dave Smith
3 days, 4 hours ago
It's not the years, it's the mileage - Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.
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Cr4w
3 days, 3 hours ago
This really hit home last time I watched that.
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Christian Strachan
2 days, 7 hours ago
Was camping with some friends this past weekend, and one friend had done her first backpacking trip ever, 40 miles over 4 days with pack horses. She just hit 50. She related how she was amazed by some in the group in their mid-70s that were keeping up just great, and asked them how they did it. Reply was something like, “well, when you hit 50, you have start going hard, because everything in your body is slowing down and if you don’t push it a little and just let things slide, everything will go downhill. Then, when you retire, you need to go even *harder* because many of your friends who also retire will just be stopping totally and watch TV all day and you just need to keep moving.”
I’m turning 55 next month, and eeeeverything is slow this summer. Throw in a bout of the ’rona and it’s hard to feel any motivation, but just moving is good and being able to move is a blessing. The camping conversation couldn’t have been more well-timed. Blessings abound.
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Cr4w
2 days, 7 hours ago
Those people still doing great in their 70s would probably advise to start trying harder in more diverse ways much earlier and that the bigger your capacities when you start that decline the better. If you think you can be sedentary your whole life and start jazzercise in your 50s to get fit enough to be doing really well in your 70s you're going to have a bad time. You need to work on that stuff with intensity while the ground is still fertile.
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Mark
2 days, 6 hours ago
It's definitely more beneficial to be active one's entire life, but research shows that people starting a strength training program even at an advanced age can make significant positive changes in their quality of life.
https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/how-can-strength-training-build-healthier-bodies-we-age
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cxfahrer
3 days, 18 hours ago
The perception of myself being fast does not rely on facts, as Strava tells me. And one thing with getting old is, one has experienced where going too fast will lead to too often.
Munchhausen tried to marry a young girl when he was 73, but she ran away. He was very frustrated in his old days.
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Andy Eunson
3 days, 9 hours ago
I got off Strava as a tracking app quite a while ago. I did not need to know that I was 4,589th fastest on some segment.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 7 hours ago
I never look at times but I like to use the free version as a repository of rides so I know where I've been and when (or if) as well as the amount of mileage on a given bike. But segment times? Miss me with that stuff, I seldom ride a trail without stopping anyway.
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Andy Eunson
3 days, 5 hours ago
My Garmin watch does all the tracking I want plus other metrics which I use to gauge how much effort I should put into any activity. I use body battery, resting pulse, heart rate variability and sleep score. Mostly I watch the trends. Getting slowly worse means more rest.
I was joking with the wife a while ago that my scores were so low that the recommended workout was getting on the googles and looking for a coffin. A few days later, I shit you not, I’m playing free solitaire and an add comes up "House of Caskets". Seriously. What business is there in coffins and who the hell calls it that. Weird. And how do the algorithms know what I’m joking about.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 4 hours ago
The Garmin metrics are great, I just find that Strava as an app is more useful to x-ref with other things I use like Trailforks.
Regarding the other thing, you probably have way more apps using your microphone than you think. Anything you use to communicate (Facebook if messenger or WhatsApp for example) has permission to listen in on you all the time (depending on the app and the permissions you bestow). Creepy but true. So if you're saying it, one or more apps that control your online experience (Google, Chrome, Safari, etc) are serving you ads based on that. When you install a new app it never feels like a big deal when it asks if it can have access to your microphone (select 'only when using the app' for that and location services whenever possible) but the reality is, you're granting access to a gold mine every time.
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Lynx .
3 days, 4 hours ago
Yeah Andy, you need to set your permissions for your MIC and camera to "Ask every time" or else there's loads of programs/apps listening to you. Also, if you have one of those devices in your home that listen to you and plays music, yeah that.
As to using Strava, I like it to track certain segments I've created to help me analyse how my fitness is going, mostly they're climb, then descend segments, but I'll only upload a file if I want to see that, otherwise I just use the Garmin app to track miles on bikes/equipment, can really help you keep on top of proper service on parts that have listed hours.
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GB
1 day, 8 hours ago
The mic on your phone listens to everything. Unfortunately.
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
I still have the internal fire to race because I like how if makes me ignore pain, fear, fatigue and my age, and when I get race face, I feel like a superman. Squirrel to my inner dog kind of thing.
But as there are so few races now, I make my own challenges, like 100 trails in 10 hours, or a triple crown loop from my home choosing my own trails to maximize off pavement time. No one to compare to, but simply completing the route or beating the clock becomes my "squirrel".
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Cr4w
3 days, 3 hours ago
You know what is great though? Riding hard enough and pushing yourself often enough that you think poorly of your own state of progress because you mostly ride alone and in discomfort thinking you should be doing better.... until you get back out with people who find spending time at their metabolic limit uncomfortable and so don't ever improve much. Then you see just how fine you're actually doing.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 2 hours ago
Agreed. I've often surprised myself when riding alone. Althoughhhhh, I recently had a media camp experience that drove home a different kind of riding attitude/effort level that made me see that through different eyes. May have to address it in writing, we'll see...
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
Yes please. Write your story
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XXX_er
3 days, 5 hours ago
My 50's were really good fitness wise no job just skiing/ biking/ paddling, I was almost always ahead of the 30 something guys on skis cuz buddy has a job/ 2 kids/ whitepicket fence and is on day 2 while I'm on day 50 or 100 so no contest
Blown ACL and the covid shutdown are what slowed me down but i recovered, lifting weights is key for me
A competative ultra runner who came for an event told me most of the Ultra runners are in their 50's and 60's
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
as are bikepack racers
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Lynx .
3 days, 3 hours ago
I somehow feel that this video/song is appropriate for this article :-)
[">](Sunscreen](
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
is that the "be kind to your knees" William Shatner one?
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Lynx .
2 days, 10 hours ago
Taprider, No, "Wear Sunscreen" from sometime back in very early 200s or maybe even late, late 90s. For some reason it won't keep the embeded link.
Waer Sunscreen
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taprider
2 days, 9 hours ago
yes that is where "be kind to your knees" comes from
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taprider
2 days, 6 hours ago
yeah, nothing in common
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3UfxyIdgs&t=280s
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Kerry Williams
1 day, 2 hours ago
It's like you're in my head Mike. This has been my headspace for the last 4 years. I hear ya man, I hear ya.
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GB
3 days, 7 hours ago
So many delicious phrases served with a savory side order of satire .
Trump,et. Oh that's good !
I will read this piece a few times to entertain myself while pulling myself up by the bootstraps at work attempting to accomplish more than is on my plate of tasks . Such an endeavor will probably take out my over abused spinal cord or set my sciatica on fire .
You can't teach old dogs new tricks but you if this old dog can get a few laps in . Life is good .
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Koelschejung
3 days, 5 hours ago
I was a competitive athlete as a young person, but I pulled the ripcord in time because there were other sinful things in life for me. However, this time gave me a certain affinity for sport that continues to this day. I'm in my 50s and have been doing sports regularly without putting competition in the foreground. The benefits are not only essential for MTB but generally for my physical and mental well-being. I am firmly convinced that even moderate weight/cardio training can lead to a better body feeling and more resilience in old age. Exercise and social components are the key to a satisfied life. at least for me. It's up to you.
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Kerry Williams
1 day, 2 hours ago
Just logged in to say,"Mike, it's like you're in my head!" The last 3-4 years (my 50's) has been a real wake up call to why I even ride. How much effort do I want to put in, when half the rides end with me feeling the pain in my back for 2 days afterwards. Hard to reign in the pride of trying to do 2-3 hr rides at times, but when I do, the rides are fantastic and the views are breathtaking.
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Lynx .
3 days, 12 hours ago
OK Mike, I'll counter your point on not being able to pull yourself up by the boot straps and argue that the boots they were referring to were riding type, full length boots that fit to just below the knee, in that case, then yes, in fact you could pull yourself up from a seated position with them on, I know, I used to ride horses and that's exactly what I used to do when I put my boots on, so there, counter :-p LOL
Seriously though, yeah, it becomes a lot more important as you age to remember to stretch and warm into the exercise you're doing, you can't just jump right in, full gas like you used to, but along with that also now comes more stamina to go longer at a lower sustained effort, or at least to me, from all those hours you've previously spent on the bike, all that base, it's easier than walking.
It sucks, but it is what it is and IMHO, if you do MTFU and put in the effort to do your stretches, do some weights or heavy manual labour work to help build/maintained muscles strength, you can still build and get fitter than you were a few years ago, but comparing to decades ago is just absolutely asinine IMHO, not a chance in hell, it's just physiologically impossible.
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Mike Ferrentino
3 days, 10 hours ago
While I neglected to reference the side of the tall bootstraps, I do not believe you can pull yourself into a standing position from a seated position by tugging on those straps. You could pull your knees into your face. You could pull your ass toward the floor. But pulling on bootstraps to somehow straighten your legs? I'm not buying it. Feel free to shoot a video of that achievement and I will be duly impressed.
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Lynx .
3 days, 7 hours ago
Mike, not asking, I used to do it all the time, as did pretty much the rest of those who I rode with, was a funny thing to do, you can most definitely stand yourself upright pulling on your boot straps of high boots. If I could do it now, not sure, definitely won't be going out trying to find a pair of riding boots my size to try it, guess you'll have to either decide to believe me or not, up to you.
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taprider
2 days, 22 hours ago
I can picture it now, it might be like pulling on the arms of a chair.
There is an age fitness test - sit on the floor, then can you get up without using your hands or other body parts (full points), using a knee (half a point deduction), all the way down to zero points in not being able to get up at all
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XXX_er
3 days, 2 hours ago
So anybody who doesn't want e-bike content please stay out of the comments and leave it for those of us who do want the e-bike content
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Lynx .
1 day, 9 hours ago
XXX_er, why should we, we have as much right to comment if we want and hate e-bikes, not everyone is lazy or needs to do what we did when we were younger, even if that means not actually doing that because of a motor. I'll say it again, most who own and use e-bikes have no real reason to, they just either are lazy, don't want to put in the work to get fitter/faster or are in general mostly there "for the downs", once again, e-bikes SUCK, BIG TIME.
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XXX_er
1 day, 6 hours ago
the NSMB writers are still gona write E-bike content and people who want to read e-bike content are still gona read E-bike content so it does nothing
I could make a comment on everyone of your posts but what for, I would just be acting like an asshole
eventualy the people who rag on e-bikes always give up and go do something else
perhaps pulling the wings off of flies or buying an e-bike
and i'm still here reading about E-bikes
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Lynx .
1 day, 4 hours ago
I Have NEVER gone into a review/article on e-bikes (don't read them) to make any such comments, but I do make such comments when you e-bikers come pushing their BS into other topics, telling perfectly healthy people that they've "earned them", when all that's mostly happened is someone has gotten a bit older and slower, you know the shit that happens naturally and most then just do a little bit less and accept that. Please tell me exactly WTF did they do to "earn" riding one, pray tell??
As for "giving up, really? I haven't and won't ever give up ragging on lazy people for riding them, the percentage of those who use them and actually honestly need them is about, maybe 5%, the rest mainly, fat, lazy, old, or a combo of those.
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XXX_er
1 day, 4 hours ago
" I Have NEVER gone into a review/article on e-bikes (don't read them) to make any such comments, "
If yer not gona wank up the e-bike articals good,
BUT some do try to be the pain in the ass but then lose steam go somewhere else to pull the wings off flies or go buy an e-bike or something
so just stay in yer lane and never mind then
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Mark
1 day, 4 hours ago
Your hate and angst against ebikers is probably harming you more than any damage ebikers are causing to mtn biking in general.
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Lynx .
11 hours, 25 minutes ago
Nah, trust me, I'm very good with it Mark, causes me no problem at all, heck according to "them" I should have got one when I broke me knee cap completely in 1/2 in 2019 and then was told I also had an un-healed fracture of the same knee cap which then caused lots of complications in the healing, but I didn't, because well, I knew that with perseverance, I would get back to an acceptable enough state.
Yesterday, I jogged about 150 meters "normally", first time in over 5 years, as in without a limp/bias like if I was skipping because of the knee, maybe it was because I'd parked the vehicle I borrowed to take 1 of my dogs to the vet, to run back a couple hundred meters to push a guy in a wheel chair to shelter, him missing both feet (diabetes and poor) that had just pushed himself about 2 miles down the road with no shoulder or sidewalk/pavement, to get to the supermarket and got caught in an unexpected rain storm. Don't if it was just the urgency to try and help him out of the rain, but after a couple steps I immediately was like, "wow, I'm running normally, how lucky am I, I could be this guy".
Side note, if anyone has any dealing with pedal wheel chairs or any such, I'm going to try and get this guy either an electric chair, but think it they're not designed to actually be "in the elements" or build him some sort of hand pedal chair, so chime in here or PM me.
Mark
7 hours, 42 minutes ago
@Lynx
You’re missing the point brother, it’s not about getting an ebike, it’s about getting the anger out of your life. If it causes you no problems then you wouldn’t be so angry about it.
Kos
3 days, 11 hours ago
"In much the same way that I am finding myself interrogating every piece of political rhetoric that gets shoved down my throat in an election year"
LIke a big portion of this otherwise fine piece of writing? Jeebus, Mike, sorry, but I come to NSMB to get away from this crap.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 7 hours ago
That feels like misplaced criticism. You do you but it's not like he's delving into that rhetoric, merely commenting on its impact - something we can all surely feel.
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Brad Nyenhuis
3 days, 6 hours ago
"it's not like he's delving into that rhetoric, merely commenting on its impact"
Welllll, maybe not so much.
Let me start by saying I love Mike's writing. I've been reading it since the beer foam shootout days. It's the primary reason I'm on this site.
That said...
Often times, as in this article, it's very clear where he stands, politically. The shots at the conservative side of things do show up. The statements on Vance make it pretty clear he's not a fan. BTW, regarding the appointment/anointment comment - looking at the other side's "democratic process" that chose their candidate, do you really want to go there?
That's OK, I understand. We are who we are. If I'm writing the article, I'm sure my biases will show as well.
My personal view is that, while overly simplistic, I far prefer the "pulling up by my bootstraps" mentality to the currently pervasive, "I'm human so it's owed me" one.
Perhaps that's why, at 64, I still prefer a real mountain bike to an e-bike. It requires a little more bootstrap pulling.
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Mike Ferrentino
3 days, 5 hours ago
Just so that there is absolutely no misunderstanding - you are correct, I think Vance is a political opportunist who has conveniently played both sides in order to further his personal advancement. That is not a huge surprise in the political world.
And you are correct in assuming that I am not very happy with the direction that conservative politics have taken in the US over the past 40 years. It is increasingly inhumane. I say this as someone who has never taken a single day of unemployment or availed myself of any sort of government assistance ever. However, let the record show that I am also pretty damn disenchanted with the current "liberalism" that so many in this country are concerned about. It is about as liberal as mid 80's Reaganism, and falls far, far short of what I would desire if I was the emperor of the world. Yes, that's socialist talk. J. Edgar Hoover has been dead a while and I don't feel like the Cubans are going to invade tomorrow.
However, aside from the digs at Vance, I blame both sides of the aisle equally for the bootstrapping rhetoric that has dominated the American psyche and political discourse for the past century. A very wealthy man once told me; "it doesn't matter who's in office, this is the playbook - privatize the profits, socialize the risk." We have seen this play out time and time again in the US over the past half century, and also watched the gap between the wealthy and poor dramatically widen while the taxpaying citizen gets to help bail out banks and prop up a healthcare ponzi scheme that looks absolutely ludicrous from the outside, and the alarmist in me feels that we are not too far away from some new kind of corporate feudalism and neo-serfdom. Again, both parties are fully stained on this front as far as I am concerned.
I don't think anything is owed me, but I resent the fuck out of the fact that government "of the people, by the people, for the people" has been turned into some reductive binary of "red team/blue team, your team sucks", and that more and more we cannot openly speak to political differences without it immediately turning into an angry shouting match.
Aaaaaand this is also why I generally try to rein it in and keep my jabs infrequent. Politics and religion, best kept inside the mouth most of the time. Sometimes it slips out. Apologies if it grated in this instance.
And I hear you on the e-bike!
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Brad Nyenhuis
2 days, 10 hours ago
Thanks Mike. I'd love to sit down with you, empty a few beers, and have a great discussion.
I get out to your neck pretty often. Hope to see you on the trails.
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Timer
2 days, 2 hours ago
From the outside, it sometimes seems like the US is a machine built for extracting wealth from the population and funnelling it to the top 0.1%.
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BarryW
1 day, 2 hours ago
Oh that's the exact purpose of the machine.
Not just viewed from the outside.
ReformedRoadie
2 days, 1 hour ago
Lets be real; it seems like one side is less a party and now more of a cult...
There are lots of people with integrity and values who I respect, even with differing views, that are jumping ship.
The system is broken. On point with healthcare referred to as a Ponzi scheme. Somehow that and the gun violence cannot be addressed due to lobbists wielding way too much power. Yesterday was the 45th school shooting, if you're keeping count.
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Morgan Heater
2 days, 5 hours ago
Art thou snowflake, such that politics dost melt thy loins and leavest thou trembling and limp?
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Alwayslivingthedream
3 days, 7 hours ago
Hey Mike, Get yourself an E-bike. You've earned it buddy. I have both and love both.
Let the down votes begin!
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