Review
BikeYoke Sagma 3d Printed Saddle
I am a fan of BikeYoke's original Sagma saddles, with their suspension technology and shorter design, but I didn't always find them particularly comfortable. They aren't uncomfortable to me either, and certainly much better than some others, but not my-ass-has-never-been-so-happy, comfy. How would making them with additive 3d technology help that?
Apparently 3d printed saddles are all the rage in the road (and presumably gravel) world, and very pricy indeed in that sphere, unless you go the Temu/Ali Express route. fi'zi:k calls theirs "the saddle of the future!" These are a little more reasonably priced, particularly when you consider the suspension system in the version I am testing here. There is also a Lite version without the suspension pods that is even closer to reasonably priced. As one commenter on instagram noted regarding one fi'zi:k version, "I got it on sale so it only cost me two weeks of salary instead of three." fi'zi:k makes 3d printed saddles for MTB as well, but only for XC riding.
These saddles are made with additive 3d printing technology, rather than hewn from a lump of rubbery plastic.
The Process
The first part of the process is to create a 3d computer model of the saddle top you'd like to make. Unlike a tradtional saddle, there is no cover and padding; it's all one thing aside from the base and rails. The design process allows you to vary factors that are fixed in a conventional foam saddle. With foam, in most cases, the only way to vary the support of a portion of the saddle is to increase or decrease the thickness of that padding. This has obvious limitations in terms of overall shape and the architecture of the upper.
That sounds like a lot of fun design time, to get 3500 nodes worth of information designed.
There are areas where you might like a thin layer of padding that has a lot of support or a thick layer that is quite soft, and everything in between. This is possible with the 3d printing process. Another improvement is that there aren't two layers to the upper. Unlike the traditional cover and foam, because the 3d printed upper acts as the foam and the cover, there is no tension between the two. When your bony ass pokes into a conventional saddle, the padding must flex in order for the foam to provide comfort and support. Because the upper must be pulled tightly over the foam and be durable for many hours of riding, it only has so much give, limiting that flexibility. This problem is also eliminated with 3d printed saddles.
I opted for an orange insert. You'll need a butter knife or something similar to pry out the original tag. It comes out easily but I couldn't get it out without a tool of some sort.
We weren't given the option for bolts but I do have a weakness for needless bling at times.
Once the design is complete, the machines are programmed and the material is added in layers. After that the prints are rinsed to remove any waste material and then they are baked for up to eight hours, in a process that I imagine is similar to heat treating aluminum (it's all quite secretive it seems).
After that, the flat-bottomed upper is bonded to the base which give it more shape. The bonding process seems to be the most secretive of all and I wasn't able to dig up much info about how that happens. Bubblegum? Maple syrup? We may never know.
Installed and already muddied.
This was a bit of a concern for me. I gave the saddle a good spray after our mucky ride but I didn't get the far side it turns out. I imagine it's not a maze of entirely interconnected tunnels in there, but if it is, wouldn't they get plugged with muck? I imagine this is not the case but I didn't have a chance to ask Sacki from BikeYoke.
Welcome to the Future... (™fi'zi:k )
I chose the 142mm wide version and the fit seems good. There is also a 130mm, which makes me unsure if there is adequate sizing for more big-boned mountain bikers.
I'm not sure if there is any functional reason for these recesses at the back of the saddle aside from adding some squish.
This is the one element of the Sagma's design (shared with the earlier model) that I don't love. The scallop in the middle of the end of the saddle leaves two protruding bumps that may come in contact with your own bumps or scallops. I mentioned this during my previous review and then I had it happened once since then (not a fatal blow but an uncomfortable one). The portion that protrudes proud of the padding is the very stiff shell, which you won't want to get in the thigh or or nuts or vjj. This hasn't happened since I've been riding longer droppers but it certainly could happen again. I'd love a single flat plane back there for preventive reasons.
On Dirt
The curmudgeonly luddite in me has mostly been killed off after doing this job for 25 years but I still have a festering desire to dislike anything new, particularly when it's heralded as "the future."* That part of me wasn't all that interested in this 3d printed ass catcher's much-hyped technology. Part of that disinterest was simply because I pay no attention to road products so I missed the hype so my expectations were low. But I'll be damned if I didn't really like the feel of the Sagma 3d. It does indeed strike a very nice balance and between cushion and support for me and it felt good while climbing in particular but also during brief moments of seated descending and pedalling on the flats.
*not by BikeYoke to be fair
In case you are unfamiliar with the suspension components of Sagma's rail suspension, this will give you an idea. In particular, it's designed to rock with you a little while you are pedalling.
There is something a little F1 looking about the labels and demarcations on the rails and bolts. The fittings on this version are aluminum I believe. The base is carbon reinforced.and this version also has carbon rails.
The future ain't cheap
I wasn't sure if I could tell the difference between the different dampers after switching them out on the first Sagma saddle we were sent, and when comparing it to the Sagma Lite, which made me wonder if it added comfort for me at all. I haven't ridden that saddle in quite some time however and this experience has me wondering how much of my elevated comfort on this version was related to the dampers and how much is related to the 3d printed upper.
Despite that uncertainty, this is one of the comfiest saddles I've perched upon. As a bonus, these saddles are nice and light, but, while priced below many other 3d printed saddles, these are still pricy. The least expensive 3d version, the Lite model with chromoly rails, is 159 EUR/USD, while the previous version is 89 EUR/USD. The one I have been using is 249 EUR/USD, which is about 360 CAD right now. It would be nice to compare the Lite version, without the dampers, and perhaps with chromoly rails, since that one can be had for 159 EUR/USD.
This technology, based on my posterior comfort, seems to be legit and it's well executed here by BikeYoke.
Height - 6'/183cm (mostly legs)
Weight - 165lbs/75kg
Inseam - 37"/94cm. (turns out I hadn't measured correctly previously)
Ape Index - 0.986
Age - 58
Trail I've been stoked on lately - Sam's Dad's Trail
Bar Width - 760mm
Preferred Reach - 485-500mm
Comments
SilentG
6 days, 1 hour ago
They look similar visually.
On the Bikeyoke site the original version is a 54mm stack from middle of the rail to the highest point on the saddle itself - https://bikeyoke.com/media/07/89/99/1699355937/Sagma_142_dimensions-2.pdf
New one is 52mm - https://bikeyoke.com/media/7f/71/48/1740672923/Sagma%203D_dimensions%20and%20weight_142.pdf
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tdc_worm
6 days, 1 hour ago
Any idea if the stack height has changed on this iteration?
The previous version was definitely tall to accommodate the suspension. It was also squeaky when wet.
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sacki
6 days ago
No SAGMA should be squeaky. Well, maybe if you're riding with Latex outfit.
No, seriously, the suspension saddles should not squeak jus tbecause it's wet.
Our saddles don't squeak more or less than the average other hihg-end saddle.
Although all saddle can possibly wear out at some point.
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Cam McRae
5 days, 21 hours ago
This comment has been removed.
tdc_worm
5 days, 12 hours ago
To be clear, the combination of the original saddle material, whatever shorts I was wearing, and a hot sweaty day created an environment where my interaction with the saddle produced a constant noise. It wasn't the mechanics of the saddle.
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sacki
5 days, 2 hours ago
OK, Thanks for calrifying.
I can't really say I have had experienced that with any of my outfits.
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DancingWithMyself
5 days, 3 hours ago
Sacki - Thanks for engaging in comment sections like this. Means a lot to me when brands do that.
I may be missing it, but I don't see any sort of size guide for the saddle. I know what my sit bone width is and you guys provide the width of the widest part of the saddle, but there's nothing else. There may not be anything else to say, but given all the thought that went into the bar "geometry chart" I'd be curious to see the output if you guys really thought about sit bone width and saddle size selection. For example, I'd love to know how far from the back of saddle the widest point is and then the width at say, 4cm, forward from the widest part of the saddle. That way, I could get a much better idea of how the shape compares to saddles I have and I know I like or don't like.
As a larger guy, I'd also be curious about one more saddle width in the 150-155mm range.
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sacki
5 days, 2 hours ago
From my personal point of view and form my experience, it is hard to tell which size will fit or if it will fiot at all, without actually trying it.
I have gone incognito to bike shops, had myself measured, bought recommended saddles and not always did they work for me.
What I am trying to say: There are so many companies offering so many different ways of calculating your required saddle witdth. If there was ONE way, then why are there so many different approaches?
I can't ccount the mails we received from customers who said, they bought this saddle, because they did a cardboard method or had themselves measured and they were still not happy with the saddle.
Reach, stack, seattube angle, upper body length/vs. leg length, even "internal" anatomic or tissue/muscle related individual peculiarities, which you can't see on a cardboard, can and will have an influence.
These tools, can be a guidance, but they are never a guarantee that it will fit. I do think they are a brilliant good marketing tool, though.
We are not a marketing company, I will be honest. All these texts you read are written soley by me or Flo. We need to aork on that.
That's why we will tell you, that the only way to know if a saddle fits is: Put your bum on that damn thing and ride it on the bike you plan to buy it for.
If it does not work for you, send it back to us or wherever you bought it. Every customer has a 14 day right of withdrawal from contract in Germany (at least for online purchases).
Never have we rejected a return. And unless there were marks of wear or installation, we always refunded the full price. Wrapping tape around the rails and not riding on a muddslide trai will leave the saddle in mint condition, even after a couple rides. If if there are no marks of use, then how would we know it was used? No reason to not take back.
Good dealers will also offer test rides or rentals.
We've been flooded with inquiries for the SAGMAs since introduction of the SAGMA 3D from both dealer and end consumers. This is amazing, but much more than we expected! We are currently trying to come up with an idea how to get test saddles to dealers without huge invest for both sides.
But back to your original question: We sell more 142 than 130 to being with. We do not have many returns, but if we do, more 130 are returned or exchanged for a 142 than vice versa. So, statiustically, a 142 would fit you more likely than a 130. ;-)
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Ripbro
5 days, 23 hours ago
I have been very close to pulling the trigger on an original sagma but I don't know what size to get. No one around me stocks one to try. At what sit bone width does one go for the 142 over the 130 width?
I have never been picky about saddles, but my silverado no longer feels comfortable. I have a volt and pure v, and I don't find those comfortable either. I am debating between a sagma, sqlab and a reform.
I understand everyone is different but what is your favorite saddle. I am trying to make a short list to search these out, and give them a go without spending a small fortune. I wish more shops had a saddle library to try these things out.
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Pete Roggeman
5 days, 21 hours ago
I can't offer anything in the way of guarantees here, but...
1) My sit bone width is 12 cms. SQlab has a really interesting At Home Measurement Kit that can measure your sit bones and other things (they use it to recommend everything from grips to bars, saddles, and gloves - it's impressive). For MTB (because it's different depending on the angle at which you perch on the saddle, which varies according to different types of riding, even across different types of MTB) they recommend a 140mm saddle for me. I've used their 6OX Infinergy saddles and liked them quite a bit.
2) You don't need SQlab's kit though - either your LBS can help you measure your sit bones or you can do it at home quite easily. All you need is corrugated cardboard and a ruler.
3) BikeYoke Sagma is another of my overall faves, and for aggressive riding I like it more than anything else I've tried - this is in large part due to the stubby shape which gets out of the way when your body is all over the place. I use a 142mm.
4) Haven't tried a Reform but that's your Canadian brand option of the three. Here's a review from Deniz.
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Mark
5 days, 19 hours ago
That second link is AWESOME
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Morgan Heater
5 days, 20 hours ago
WTB has a wrist measurement calculator that predicts your saddle width that worked for me:
https://www.wtb.com/pages/fit-right-system?srsltid=AfmBOoo6QiFaUWLFRO3KkrlNYUjGJRBEBTYp0jvj6MHfhq6ChuaCpdEq
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SteveR
5 days, 17 hours ago
I gave the WTB calculator a go just now, and it came up with two options- Koda in wide, which has been my go-to for a long while as it is so comfortable that I am reluctant to give anything else a try. (sorry, Sacki, I do love my Revive though). The other recommendation from WTB is the Volt- which I tried and did not like at all. Interesting.
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Pete Roggeman
4 days, 17 hours ago
I used to like WTB saddles and have probably spent more time on them in the last 10-15 years than any other brand - primarily Volt and Silverado. The ones I mentioned up above (SQlab 6OX, BikeYoke Sagma) and one or two modern Specialized shapes (shorter and wider than a 'traditional' shape in profile) are far superior for my backside. I won't go and pull a WTB off a bike or anything like that, but I've been really impressed by the new generation and shapes of some of these saddles for MTB. I've got a Sagma 3D waiting to go on a test bike and am looking forward to getting on it.
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sacki
5 days, 2 hours ago
This comment has been removed.
Cr4w
5 days, 21 hours ago
It doesn't look like it has scuff pads like a leather saddle but maybe the material is tough enough to not need extra protection?
Will they do a 150mm wide version eventually?
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Cam McRae
5 days, 20 hours ago
The base sits slightly proud of the upper for some protection. With no cover to damage, it will be interesting to see hit it stands up to rough play.
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Ryan
5 days, 18 hours ago
If they'd have a narrow nose version, similar to the Specialized Power, this would be an instant purchase.
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