Shimano Zee M640 Derailleur NSMB Andrew Major
EDITORIAL

Andrew's Five Little Christmas Product Wishes

Words Andrew Major
Photos Andrew Major (Unless Noted)
Date Dec 7, 2022
Reading time

Little Wishes

Times are a bit tight in the bike industry this year, not to mention a lot of our households, so I thought I'd focus on some little products that would make me smile for a relatively small outlay of cash. The kicker is that some of these things don't currently exist, and others soon might not. But, they should and they'd all be well received by existing and future customers. The relatively small investment in making them would pay off in good will and I'm certain also financially. In the meantime, there's nothing less expensive to buy than stuff that doesn't currently exist or that I already own.

Waltworks V2 Rigid AndrewM (2).JPG

For folks who already own a hardtail, there are stock and custom rigid fork options to cover most sagged axle-to-crown heights and it can be a relatively inexpensive way to change up your riding experience. RSD doesn't have their Boost spacing 510mm rigid fork in stock yet, so I didn't put it on my list, but I'm looking forward to having the option of turning most any review hardtail into a rigid setup. Photo: Mr. Lungtastic

Kona Long Drops

Honzo, Unit, Explosif, Raijin, Shonky, A, Cowan, Five-O, BASS, Big Unit, Dr. Fine, Wo, Wozo, Humuhumunukunuku Apua’a, Private Jake, and so help me if I missed even one model of Kona between 2010 and today that uses their excellent sliding dropout system, then please let me know in the comments below. There have been thousands of bikes over more than a decade and the big news that way too many hardtail manufacturers are missing is, it's not all about single-speeding.

Take the Honzo ESD as an example. If you're one of those folks that love a super short rear end you can run it with 417mm chain stays, and your friend who prefers a longer rear center for some janky hardtail chunking can push them back to 433mm. You can run your fresh Unit X at 430mm and I'll push mine out to 446mm and press in a -2° Angleset. The Lego-factor is high! It's especially impressive when you consider that a Honzo ESD or Honzo ST frame-only is 700 CAD and a Unit frame & fork setup is 800 CAD.

Kona Explosif Ti NSMB Andrew Major

I still wish that Specialized had done a Plus version of the Specialized Slaughter tire. And also that Kona made a longer drop out kit.

What I'd like as a nice gift from Kona this year, is a set of long dropouts. A left and a right. For their standard 40 CAD per side, and 80 CAD per set, including fresh mounting hardware. I know, personally, at least a dozen riders who'd buy a pair if only to try them on their ESD, Honzo ST, Unit, or Explosif. I'm open to debate but I'd suggest making them 16mm longer than the current setup - so that short is the new long.

For example, instead of the ESD running from 417mm to 433mm, it would be adjustable from 433mm to 449mm. Folks with larger-sized frames would be able to find a better weight balance front and rear, and nerds who think they might like a longer setup could try it with their existing Kona for peanuts compared to buying a new frame. That's value-added for a pile of existing Kona owners not to mention that Kona won't be giving them away. Even if they sold them for 100 CAD a pair I'm certain they'd sell out a few hundred units just to folks working in shops.

FixItSticks-NSMB-AndrewM-1.jpg?w=1600

The Kona sliding dropout system is not as clean looking as the Paragon swinging dropouts on my Walt V2 and it takes a bit more time to adjust but it makes up for that by being the most solid and trouble-free wheelbase adjustment system out there as well as equalling most anything else in terms of intuitive adjustment.

Purple Wax Grips

For once I'm going to mention Chromag without using it as an opportunity to harass them to make a -16° backsweep FU50 bar. Oops. Anyway, I really like their Wax model push-on grips and I'd like a pair in purple. Or maybe hot pink. Maybe both. Wherever they're getting them made has those colour options so it's just a matter of adding a SKU, or two. They're doing a nice looking purple in their fancy fresh Format single-clamp grips but, meh. Anyway, it's not that I don't enjoy blue, rawhide, or any of the other colours that Wax grips are currently available in, but I'd be gifting myself some purple Wax grips if the option existed.

Lizardskins DSP Brake Lever Grips NSMB Andrew Major

Purple Chromag Wax grips coupled with some purple Lizardskins DSP Lever Grips? Yes, please. If plain old purple is too boring then mauve, lilac, or violet would all be great too.

Chromag Wax Grips NSMB Andrew Major (4)

Blue is currently my favourite option, though the rawhide brown is pretty sweet as well. If you're going to gift yourself some push-on grips, consider some safety wire pliers as well.

Marin Rift Zone Manitou R7 Andrew Major

As part of my Aenomaly Switchgrade review, I've been playing with bar height/rise on my Rifty quite a bit hence the constant change in grip colour in photos. The blue grips are on the higher rise and the brown is on a mid-rise bar - both SQlab 30X -16°.

Wolf Tooth T-25/4mm Hex Bit

Carrying on with my theme of not beating a dead bottom bracket, not only am I going to leave Chromag alone about making a FU50-16°, I'm not going to pester Wolf Tooth about finally making a smaller version of their CAMO BashSpider to cover a 28t oval / 30t round ring with improved ground clearance and appearance for those of us pedaling smaller chainrings. See, I know when to give things a rest. Instead, this year, I'm going to ask the friendly Minnesotans to make bits for their various tool systems that are a combination of a T-25 Torx and a 4mm hex head.

Currently the 4mm hex head shares the same shaft as a 2mm hex and the T-25 is mated to a T-10. This is not a big deal with an EnCase or 8-Bit Pack Plier setup, but it drives me up the wall when I'm using their Axle Handle multi-tool. The tool itself is a stepped head 5mm/6mm hex with just enough leverage for tightening or loosening axles or my stem and from there holds two other bits. The 2.5mm/3mm hex would be a given along with said T-25/4mm bit but instead, I'm juggling to choose two out of three. I usually leave the 2.5mm/3mm at home and dig out one of the more endowed tools when micro-adjustments are needed. I use the Axle Handle much more frequently than I go into my pack for other tools. I also wish that the 5mm hex was spring-loaded and could retract into the 6mm but I'm not greedy - I'd just like my little 4mm/T-25 bit.

I'd go as far as to say that if Wolf Tooth did add that T-25/4mm combo then they could ship the Axle Handle tool with two fewer bit options. Hard to imagine any purchasers are riding around with the screwdriver bits installed.

Zee M640 Forever

There's no better value for a rear derailleur than a 10/11-speed Shimano Zee M640 clutched setup. The clutches come lubricated, the cage durability is exponentially better than any level of Shimano’s 12-speed components, you can reliably find a fresh one today for around 100 CAD and that hard-beaten gear-shifting beauty will still be changing gears a few sets of pulley wheels down the trail.

Pair the 11-36t version with a 26t chainring from NSB, a Shimano XT 10-speed cassette, a SRAM 1071 chain, and a Zee or Saint shifter, depending on your budget - all products that are available right now - and you're riding around on my dream drivetrain. Well, okay, I'd probably choose to run a thumb shifter, but I'm weird.

There are currently a lot of rumours circulating about where Shimano's headed on the drivetrain front. Stuff like no more updates to cable actuation options for XT and higher level products once their semi-wireless systems hit the market. I've also heard that clutched 1x shifting will finally be coming to lower-priced drivetrains than Deore which will spell some proper competition for MicroShift and hopefully put SRAM SX in the grave. Go, go Alivio 10-speed.

Shimano can and will do as they please but I'd love to see them continue manufacturing and return to marketing Zee 10-speed as the ultimate balance of performance, survivability, and price. People look at me like I have two heads when I suggest the above drivetrain for their rig, but I love it and would be more than happy just refreshing that combo from this point onward. The best chance of that happening is for folks to keep buying the setup. So hey, this holiday season here's a chance to do us both a favour.

Shimano Zee M640 Derailleur NSMB Andrew Major

The Shimano Zee M640 is the glorious pinnacle of rear derailleurs - balancing quality, cost, performance, mechanical durability, aesthetics, and toughness. There's a derailleur that will top it in any category but this is the whole package and every Shimano drivetrain engineer should have one of these on their desk at all times.

Shimano Zee Drivetrain NSMB Andrew Major

My Zee will happily handle an 11-36t cassette and stretch to a 40t on most bikes. I pick a chainring size that works for me with that range. On that note, if my kid had one wish these 26t NSB rings - CINCH & SRAM - would come in anodized blue. I'm less picky, I'd just like North Shore Billet to have them in stock again.

Production Weatherproof Vests

This one isn't a little thing money-wise, but in terms of producing weatherproof vests, it's a jacket without arms. There are a plethora of companies making waterproof-breathable jackets that also make windproof vests and it makes me wiggle wondering why they're not putting the two together. I'm on my second chop job, having had the sleeves removed from my 7Mesh Guardian after my GoreTex vest-née -jacket crapped out but it suffers from the same issues as its predecessor. Namely that I used the crap out of it as a jacket and it's only been converted over when it was nearing its end of life anyway.

I have a hang-up about buying a new jacket and then chopping the sleeves off from day dot. It's just that it's bloody expensive to get one that suits my sweatiness. I also feel like a vest that's meant to be a vest would be cut a bit differently than my jacket sans sleeves. All the same, for my next project, I'm going to try it as a half-sleeve for a bit first but ultimately I imagine I'll end up with weatherproof vest #3. For now, my Guardian vest has some life left but soon enough I'm going to have to start storing my jacket far enough away from my scissors to allow for a semi-sober second thought before I start in with the snip-snip. After all, the sleeves on my current Skypilot are just a little bit too long.

Marin Rift Zone Manitou R7 NSMB Andrew Major JacAttack (3)

Following a surgical de-sleeving, this 7Mesh Guardian jacket became my new 7Mesh Guardian weatherproof vest. It is my go-to piece of fall-winter kit, even when it's not raining. Photo: JacAttack

Full Face Helmets Chin Bar NSMB AndrewM (2).jpg

My GoreTex Active jacket went from being underutilized to the vest I grabbed every ride when it was raining or could be raining. Vary the Merino long-sleeve for the temperature and go ride. It finally died after a good life. Photo: JacAttack

Marin Rift Zone Manitou R7 NSMB Andrew Major JacAttack (2)

A weatherproof-breathable vest keeps my core dry and comfortable, blocks the wind and cold, and yet it has significantly better airflow than before the sleeves were removed. In a proper deluge, I will pair it with a Conspiracy jersey but usually, it's worn over Merino wool. Photo: JacAttack

If you forced me to guess which one of these little wishes is most likely to come true, it's probably the weatherproof vests. If someone, say 7Mesh, decides to make one and it's an item that interests you, then jump on it right away because I doubt it will survive in the catalogue long term. For whatever reason, the majority of folks I talk to about the idea of a waterproof breathable outer layer without sleeves look at me like I'm the village idiot. But if you're a sweaty person that runs hot, living in our little neck of the rainforest I can almost (almost) promise you that it will be your go-to piece for all but the wettest of weather.

Beyond that, I really hope I can buy a new Zee rear derailleur when mine finally quits. I'd love for Shimano to take some inspiration from their past shifting setups because 12-speed (any groupset) and MicroSpline don't do justice to the best of their previous products. Every time I shift the old 9-Speed XTR M972 rear derailleur and M970 shifter on my commuter bike, I'm reminded of this fact in spite of the latest XTR's eye-watering price tag.

With that, there are just the questions left. What's your dream product that's absence is keeping a few dollars in your pocket? What beloved product, drivetrain or otherwise, are you concerned is headed for extinction?

Related Stories

Trending on NSMB

Comments

LoamtoHome
Jerry Willows
2 months ago
+11 Deniz Merdano Mammal 4Runner1 Nick Maffei Metacomet cornedbeef dolface Sandy James Oates Velocipedestrian trumpstinyhands bushtrucker

My wishlist...  less Strava and more shovels.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+5 Jerry Willows imnotdanny bishopsmike mrraulduke silverbansheebike

Have you tried posting signs asking people not to strava trails? (HAHAHA) 

#NoDigJustRide

#DraggingBrakesWhileJerryRakes

Reply

LoamtoHome
Jerry Willows
2 months ago
0

how about more common sense?

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+3 Cooper Quinn imnotdanny grumpygears

You're adorable.

I've actually overheard riders talking about going out to rip --- a more sensitive dirt trail that they weren't involved in building --- on a proper rainy day, in a proper rainy week, because "someone else is going to trash it anyway."

Reply

mammal
Mammal
2 months ago
0

Baiting...

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+4 Jerry Willows Mammal imnotdanny mrraulduke

#JerryWillowsHatesMyBike (and he probably hates yours too!)

.

For the record, I appreciate JW very much and he's aware of that.

grumpygears
grumpygears
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+2 ZigaK Timer

Common sense is the sense the common person has. What you are asking for is good sense, which is far more difficult to come by.

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 months ago
+5 Andrew Major yardrec Glenn Bergevin Vik Banerjee bushtrucker

Dear Chromag, 

All I want for Xmas is a FU50 x 16 degree.  You could even make them in polished to really set them apart from your other bars.

Nitto make a nice 15 degree bar for Hunter (Smooth Moves) but not a 50mm rise so I'm sure they could knock up a 50mm for you (Chromag). 

Best Xmas Wishes and good work with all the other cool stuff you make.

Regards

Martin.

PS - I would buy 2 pairs straight away.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+3 yardrec doodersonmcbroseph bushtrucker

Wow, I just want some purple grips but that bar sounds like a great idea. I’d buy one too - even if they only came in black.

I bet a bunch of folks who’ve never considered an alt-bar would try one if Chromag was making it.

Reply

dolface
dolface
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

You likely know this but juuuuust in case you don't here's a link to the 75mm rise Smooth Moves: https://huntercycles.bigcartel.com/product/hunter-smooth-move-high-rise-handlebars

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 Brad Sedola

Absolutely. A big part of the focus on Chromag is I believe there are a lot of folks who would benefit from alt-bars but lack awareness of the products or see they’re coming from nerd-brands (SQ) or more niche companies (Stooge, Hunter). A Chromag FU50 -16d would introduce a lot of other riders to the concept.

Reply

dolface
dolface
2 months ago
0

This comment has been removed.

dolface
dolface
2 months ago
0

This comment has been removed.

Crabbypants
Crabbypants
2 months ago
+4 Andrew Major Zombo Sandy James Oates jason

Add me to the list for a waterproof vest. I’d buy 2 just to have a spare!

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

I love mine so much - especially my Gore Active 7Mesh one - it’s beyond me that they don’t have a production one.

Reply

Vikb
Vik Banerjee
2 months ago
+3 Andrew Major BadNudes bushtrucker

Bird has a nice 505mm steel fork in stock. The landed price in CAD is pretty decent.

https://www.bird.bike/product/bird-blank-rigid-forks-505mm-a2c-1320g/

The Freeride version of the Zee will shift to a 42T cog no problem with a Wolftooth Goat Link. A bit of an extra cost, but it's reusable so you can move it along to the next Zee from your stockpile.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/drivetrain-1/products/goatlink

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

That Bird fork looks good - the equivalent of a 130mm fork at 30% sag covers trying rigid on quite a few aggressive hardtails. Thanks for that!

Reply

mammal
Mammal
2 months ago
0

Zee will shift to 46t with a goat link (Sunrace 10spd 11-46). Ran that on my old Trance (now my GF's Trance).

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 silverbansheebike

I don't need larger than a 36t cog with my cute little ground-clearance-positive 26t ring and I'd certainly encourage more riders (especially locally) to consider what gear range they really need for the trails.

Still, it's a good way to combine Shimano's all-time best rear derailleur with a wider range if that's your preference. In my experience, the Goat Link setups make for less exciting shifting in the high gears, but really, who cares?

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

It's similar gearing to my 30/42 that I run on my 104 cranks.

Reply

mammal
Mammal
2 months ago
0

I do prefer to keep my chainring size closer to what suspension bikes are designed around, for anti-squat reasons (+/- 2 teeth usually). Although I haven't spun out much on my 30T x 11cog setups, it does happen, and 26 is far to small for my preference. 

Another factor for me is wear. Unless you're running steel, I think there's noticeably less wear on a 30 or 32 compared to 26, with better chain retention through the wear period.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 bishopsmike

In terms of wear, I’ve had the opposite experience with customers’ rigs where we’ve gone smaller (28x10-50t) and they’re then using the center of the cassette stack more with straighter chain line. 

I’ve also not noticed an appreciable increase in wear using an aluminum 28t ring vs 32t ring on my one speed. Where chainline is always perfect. 

-

Was talking with a friend about the gears we can spin out on the Shore and where (not including pavement) vs. say the Whistler bike park and thinking it could make sense to have multiple rings (swap out for trips to Whistler/Sunpeaks) rather than a massive cassette range that covers every eventuality.

Reply

velocipedestrian
Velocipedestrian
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+2 moutarde_dijon mrbrett

"it could make sense to have multiple rings... rather than a massive cassette range that covers every eventuality."

Careful, for a 1FG proponent you're awfully close to inventing the front derailleur.

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

I don’t hate front derailleurs. I think some of the unrealized tech for chain retention (Shimano shiftable narrow-wide, Trek chain guide shifter) would have breathed more life into the world of better chainline and lighter unsprung weight. 

I love how much 1X simplified full suspension bike design - especially at the budget end - but it didn’t need to be one or the other.

mrbrett
mrbrett
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

I am OK switching chainrings when a tire change is necessitated. e.g. DH vs trail tires = also due for a chainring swap. Smaller cassettes and shorter cages can be worth the effort!

BadNudes
BadNudes
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+2 Andrew Major bushtrucker

Thank you for linking the Bird fork! I've been waiting with my fingers crossed for almost a year for the RSD fork to finally arrive, lately even considering going the cu$tom route to finally ditch the clapped out sliders that were supposed to only be a stop-gap. The Bird is hair short and missing some braze-ons for it to be a final-form part for me, but in stock is 100% better than yet another delayed delivery notice.

Reply

derek.richards
derek.richards
2 months ago
+3 MTBrent fartymarty Jerry Willows

switched to a similar Zee drivetrain you mentioned in the spring and am loving it!

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 derek.richards

Cheers! What cassette range are you running? Hardtail or suspension frame?

Reply

derek.richards
derek.richards
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

It's on a 2020 Knolly Fugitive. Running a Deore 10sp 11-36 cassette with two of the rings removed (can't remember which ones). I used single speed spacers to push the cassette outboard and then installed a non-boost 26T oval with the offset in the outward direction (rather than inward). This resulted in a centered drivetrain with less lateral stretch on the chain. Also put on a KMC ebike chain as I have a bit of trouble with breaking chains. I did verify the chain line in AutoCAD; merrrr. Note that the bike is super boost.

I'm a bit heavier and ride mostly with my kids so I'm often in low speed, high torque mode towing their butts up the hill! Also do a bit of bikepacking.

Anyway, the whole setup was inspired by several of your articles so thanks!!!

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 months ago
0

I've been on a 10 speed Zee 11-42 drive train for years now and wouldn't change.  I love the nice short cage.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

With a Goat Link or straight bolted to a hanger? Hardtail or FS bike?

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 months ago
0

Murmur and Krampus both w/o goat link.  You need your chain length spot on tho.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

Did you have to swap to a longer B-tension screw? Are you running the chain a bit long in the 11t unsagged? 

I've seen a couple of Zee setups with 11-42t on hardtails, but haven't seen one without a Goat Link on an FS bike. It's interesting.

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+2 mrbrett Andrew Major

I run a stock B screw on the Krampus but wind it all the way in.  Chain is just tight on the 11 (B screw helps that).  When I change to "road mode" (11-28 cassette) I swap chain and run the B all the way out.

On the Murmur I'm running the chain one link too short - If I bottom out on the 42 it'll wreck the mech but I figured that i'm not likely to ever bottom in the 42 as it's a bailout gear for climbing.  The 36 is fine (checked with a fully sagged air shock).  IIRC I did run a chain with one more link but it wasn't as good on the 11 (it probably needed more B tension) - it used to jump on the smaller cogs.  This seems to be fine with the shorter chain.

I have changed the B screw on the M as you can see on the photos.

Interestingly the difference between the DH and FR mode is braket (1) on https://dassets.shimano.com/content/dam/global/cg1SHICCycling/final/ev/ev/EV-RD-M640-3438A.pdf.  As such if you have an older mech you can buy either and swap the (1) bracket.

velocipedestrian
Velocipedestrian
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

The Moxie has 11-36 for the Zee to scoot across, XT shifter on pilot duty.

The chain/ring/cassette are dying, and my legs are looking forward to the 42t replacement. 

Goat Link means I've got plenty of B screw to play with.

Reply

velocipedestrian
Velocipedestrian
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

Marty, good tip on the difference between the DH & FR models, I've skipped buying a used DH one in the past, if another comes along I'll just fit a Goat Link.

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Velocipedestrian

I found a Zee for £40 and wasn't sure if it was a DH or FR so checked the difference.  I ended up buying 2 as spares.

Reply

UFO
UFO
1 month, 3 weeks ago
+1 Velocipedestrian

Point of reference, the Zee FR uses the same b link as the SLX 10sp RD

Reply

skyler
Skyler
1 month, 3 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

Great info, thanks. I've been dreaming of this setup with an e-thirteen 9-39 11 speed cassette. Sounds like it should work.

Too bad so many full suspension bikes can't do rings smaller than 30t, or I'd do it on all my bikes.

Reply

MTBrent
MTBrent
2 months ago
+3 Andrew Major cornedbeef derek.richards

Dangly derailleurs on off-road bicycles are dumb (i.e. singlespeeds rule).

BUT, Zee M640 and some Big S chain and 11-36 cassette combination will always get the shifty shifty nod.

Reply

Coarsebass
Glenn Bergevin
2 months ago
+3 cornedbeef bishopsmike bushtrucker

Shimanos last gen of 10 speed, 11-36 XT cassette, and that whole group set, really, was their best ever. I'm let down by their 12s offering, and 11s was ok.... New Deore 11s is a great value, though.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 bushtrucker

Deore 10spd is an even better value maybe? Same derailleur but you can get nicer chains for less money. 

But yeah, Shimano 12spd only exceeds previous products in the number of cogs and gear range.

Reply

UFO
UFO
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

This. My kids' hardtails run the XT 11-36 cassette with a 40t add on cog. The 10sp XT/XTR shifters are so smooth and buttery but also not too 'clicky' like 11sp XT+. They run XTR RD bodies with Zee short cages, so I'm also constantly looking for lightly used cheap Zee shortcage RD's to keep in inventory

Reply

dsciulli19
dsciulli19
2 months ago
+2 Velocipedestrian bushtrucker

I don't have any 12sp experience other than my GX, but every time I get on my old bike with 10 speed XT I'm reminded of just how good that drivetrain is. It is so smooth and shifts well under just about all conditions.

I run an 11-42 cassette with a 30T front ring and I could probably use a little smaller of a ring but I'd have to switch to the 64BCD middle ring of my old 3x10 cranks.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 bushtrucker

NSBillet and Wolf Tooth both make ‘middle’ rings that bolt up to the 64BCD granny tabs. My wife’s bike is running a 28t 64BCD oval mated to a 10-spd 11-46t setup.

Reply

sandy-james-oates
Sandy James Oates
2 months ago
0

Yes, new Deore 11 speed.

Reply

bishopsmike
bishopsmike
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

"Shimano Zee M640 is the glorious pinnacle of rear derailleurs - balancing quality, cost, performance, mechanical durability, aesthetics, and toughness."

Could not agree more - best drivetrain I've ever had, that also required the least tinkering.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+2 bishopsmike derek.richards

Apparently it’s not a secret. Hopefully with so much Zee love I have nothing to worry about.

Reply

bushtrucker
bushtrucker
1 month, 3 weeks ago
0

This! Shimano haven't made anything better that their 10s stuff. I think SRAM knocked it out of the park with the 1x11 though and I'm happily running 11s GX/Rival level shifting on 3 of my bikes. Not all that cheap but an XD driver is hard to beat on a geared setup. Yet to ride a 12s setup from either manufacturer that has impressed me.

Reply

ukkona
ukkona
1 month, 3 weeks ago
+3 papa44 Velocipedestrian bushtrucker

Well well, here you go from us at the Kona UK store...

A customer wanted to run 29" + in his Raijin and was a former draughtsman so spent hours working on how to make this all work, mech bracket angle too (It now runs AXS groupset) brake bracket etc. Had these custom extended dropouts created. He has lots of friends within motor racing that helped get them made.

Obv he needed to thin his stays for clearance so had the Ti cut down and re formed.

Bonkers.

I believe the next step is 'the slackening' which involves removing the head tube and creating an "ESR' Extra Slack Raijin"

More:

https://ibb.co/2sghdbX

https://ibb.co/8bp0sxt

https://ibb.co/86f7R1z

https://ibb.co/9WNVcbW

https://ibb.co/1XZg3fF

https://ibb.co/Xz6Dzr7

Reply

papa44
papa44
1 month, 3 weeks ago
0

Madness! But I get it, if you can and you love your bike why not!

Reply

Vikb
Vik Banerjee
2 months ago
+2 Andrew Major bishopsmike

If I had a MTB product wish it would be more manpri/capri/long-shorts/short-pants [whatever you want to call them]. I wear them a ton and it seems like they've gone out of fashion in the outdoor clothing world as it's fairly rare to see any these days. When you factor in sizing/fit challenges that makes replacing the ones I have that are wearing out a lot harder than it used to be.

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 months ago
+1 Vik Banerjee

Manpri - like it...  I have some Under Armor 7/8 (non padded) that are ok - a bit light for winter tho.  But agree we need more.  Need to keep them old knees warm.  I read somewhere (probably a road site) that your knees should be covered under 15 degrees C.  I tend to do this as I don't want knee problems.

Reply

sanjay.carterrau@gmail.com
+2 Dustin Meyer Pete Roggeman

I have a waxed canvas vest I made from an old buttonup workshirt and a bunch of candle butts.

It's not waterproof but quite resistant to the elements

Love it for the wet season, all the mud on the shirt, none on my wool layers, let it dry and brush off

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

Interesting, what temperature range does it work for you in?

I have a friend Tom who played with waxed cotton for rainwear but found the breathability just wasn’t there for our rain forest riding. Maybe enough of an improvement running a vest over a jacket?

Reply

stinhambo
Steven Hambleton
2 months ago
+2 Offrhodes42 bushtrucker

My product wish list includes -

More silver products! Silver bars, silver wheels and silver chainrings.

Microshift Advent X to improve with a shifter that offers multi-release up and down, a 10-48T Microspline cassette option. Oh and a silver cassette option too ;)

40mm and 50mm rise options for the One Up carbon or PNW Range.

Mainstream cassettes with replaceable aluminium bail-out cogs. It's a waste to throw out a cassette with a worn 51 or 52T cog when the rest is perfectly fine.

Industry wide agreement on what width means when measuring a pedal. To me width is across the foot, not the width across the spindle. Then make wider pedals for larger feet.

Maxxis to offer white logo for retail tyres. I hate the yellow branding (and red, looking at you Vittoria!).

Lastly, two way multi-release shifting to make its way to SLX and perhaps Deore groupsets!

A dropper lever that doesn't cost as much as an XT shifter. It's not that complex a mechanism!

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 months ago
+2 Steven Hambleton bushtrucker

IIRC Shimano has a patent on multi release shifting.  I think this is why Sram etc don't do it.

Logos are easily fixed with a Sharpie - I used to do this when I run Maxxis which clashed with my bike colour.  I then moved to WTB which have nice subtle logos.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 Steven Hambleton

It would be so nice to see SRAM 12-spd XD cassettes having replaceable low gears like the 11-spd ones did. Worthy of praise even. It would add significant value to their (expensive!) cassettes too.

e13 cassettes do shift well and the low gears are replaceable.

Reply

stinhambo
Steven Hambleton
2 months ago
0

I was looking at Shimano SLX and XT. XTR maybe but at that price, you can probably afford a new cassette!

I had no idea you could do that to older SRAM cassettes..

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

In terms of components, maybe, but pulling clutch covers off and thinking about derailleur slop over time - all anecdotal - I think the Zee derailleurs were better assembled. 

-

NSBillet used to sell 44t cogs to replace the 42t on 11-spd XD cassettes. 

I know of riders who were getting three+ low gear replacements out of a single one-piece XX1 cassette.

Reply

silverbansheebike
silverbansheebike
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+2 Andrew Major bushtrucker

Late to the party here, but a buddy of mine came to visit BC, immediately realized that 11-36 with 36T up front was a no-go outside of the park, so we got him rolling on a spare XT 11-42, 30T up front.

and he left me with his Zee!!!

Just put the EXACT setup you mention on my rigid winterbike, thumb shifter and all, but with a 28 tooth instead of 24 (no chainstay clearance with 24)

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 silverbansheebike

I'm running a 26t on my 29'er (11-36t) and it's rare that I need the 36t (but when I do, I definitely do). It's all a compromise. With my Mullet setup I was running a 30t with the same cassette and there were times where just a bit more low gearing would have been lovely (28t). 

But if you don't experiment, how do you really know?

Reply

silverbansheebike
silverbansheebike
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

Right! Life is an experiment, bikes are a part of it. I think you're onto something with that setup... But that could also almost sell someone on an 11 or 12spd haha! I've been small chainring curious for my main rig, would be super slick to run 11-36 and the zee derailleur instead of the longer cage XT. Never really use the highest gears day-to-day... Next year!

Reply

hankthespacecowboy
hankthespacecowboy
1 month, 3 weeks ago
+2 Velocipedestrian doodersonmcbroseph

Another proud member of the Zee Luddite drivetrain devotees here. In my younger, less financially stable days, I experienced multiple episodes of months at a time of not being able to ride my otherwise functioning bike due to destroyed dangly derailleurs. Call it PTSD, but I have absolutely zero interest in the new drivetrains that have become even more expensive & dangly. Now that I have middle-aged purchasing power, I buy Zee derailleurs 4 at time (roughly equivalent to buying 1 XTR derailleur) as a hoarding response. 

I run them with the Goat Link, and a cassette in the 40-42t range. Current setup on my Dreadnought is 11-40 cassette w/ Hope EVO 165 cranks, and 30t chainring. Was running a 28t, but found I was spinning out on flatter, faster trails. Swapped out for a 30t before our Oaxaca sabbatical, and have been regretting the stiffer gearing on steep climbs. Probably would have been better off to leave the 28t on for this trip, and swap to the 30t when I get back home to Colorado.

Reply

Flatted-again
Flatted-again
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

Kona longer dropouts? Yes yes yes yes. Count me in!

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

I know a decent pile of people with Kona frames using these sliders going back years who'd be interested in giving longer chainstays a go. Especially folks with the current ESD or angleset-equipped Honzo ST bikes looking to try a more balanced front/rear center. 

It's not looking for charity. I'd guess whatever number of sets they make as a trial run would sell out tout de suite.

Reply

Flatted-again
Flatted-again
2 months ago
0

I wonder what it would take a machinist to make a couple.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 Mammal

I've looked into it in the past and it was too expensive for any kind of mass uptake, even just trying to recoup my costs. 

Kona sells the current dropouts for 30 USD per side including hardware (60 USD for a set). I figure they could sell the long dropouts for 80 USD a set (110 CAD currently) and have sufficient uptake to make it worthwhile. 

I have been accused of riding in a well forested echo chamber many times in the past, but I truly believe that wheelbase (and specifically rear center) is the new Reach, was the new head angle in terms of a single number that riders obsess over.

Reply

Flatted-again
Flatted-again
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

Nope, I’m with you there. The ESD would be amazing with 440-445 dropouts. I’ve got mine slammed all the way back and it’s still seeming unbalanced

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

What size ESD do you ride?

Flatted-again
Flatted-again
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

I ride a large with either a 160 or 170 fork depending on the day

FlipSide
FlipSide
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 mrbrett

Interesting. I have mine (Medium ESD) as far forward as possible without having to deflate the tire to put the wheel in (about 420mm CS).

My initial plan was to start with super short CS, then try super long, then in the middle. It turns out I love it so much in the short setting, I don't even feel like experimenting. I'll try eventually, for sure, buy I only finished the build in the middle of the summer. 

I may be wrong on this, but my understanding is that short CS helps a lot to compensate the sluggishness that could come from the super slack HA and long Reach. For the trails I ride, I don't really need high speed stability as much as manoeuvrability and responsiveness. 

I think longer sliding dropouts for Kona frames has NSB written all over it.

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 FlipSide

@FlipSide,

To each their own and certainly I’m not pushing that there’s one truth about CS lengths - but, all but one of the folks I’ve convinced to try their ESD full long has left it there.

I’m a big proponent of size specific stays and prefer long stays myself (my Walt is a M/L size and my rear center is at ~465) so I acknowledge my bias here. But I think once you’re used to a bit more wheelbase you’ll find your ESD climbs better, is more balanced cornering or punching through rough terrain and there are limited to no trade offs on the trail. 

It won’t be as fun on a pump track, slalom course, or doing tricks in the parking lot and sometimes needs much more deliberate body English in pull-up type moves.

Worth trying it anyway.

FlipSide
FlipSide
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

@Andrew Major

Thanks for the reply. Very interesting! 

Yes, I will try it for sure next summer and see what I prefer. I wanted to first ride a few hundred kms in the short CS setting in order to get a solid baseline for the feel of the bike before trying something else.

I must admit what I like about the ESD is precisely that it feels like a pump track bike for mountain bike trail and it is so much fun. I am not aiming at maximum performances/stability, but rather maximum fun. I like how different, fun and generally awesome if feels compared to my big 180/165 Enduro bike.

It will be interesting to see how I like it with longer CS. Thanks again!

davetolnai
Dave Tolnai
2 months ago
+3 ZigaK kcy4130 mrbrett

One thing to consider is that, yes, you're only adding 20-30 mm or whatever, but from the perspective of the dropout and the chainstay/seatstay welds, you're effectively doubling the leverage.  Any dropout is probably going to need to be a lot beefier than the stock one, and it's not a given that the seatstay/dropout weld is going to be up to the challenge.  So it's probably not quite as simple as Kona making a part that's a bit longer and sending it out into the wild.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

I’d be surprised if Kona was concerned, having owned a number of frames with this system, they’ve all been very overbuilt. 

They thoroughly test products before putting them out to consumers so I’m sure this wouldn’t be an exception.

morgan-heater
Morgan Heater
2 months ago
+1 yardrec

I wonder if you could get NS billet or someone similar to do a small run of kona dropouts for you, and sell them yourself to offset the investment.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

Ah, see my reply to Flatted-again. I looked into it ages ago and even at cost recovery finding someone to make a small enough batch for me to take the risk was too expensive. 

I've joked in the past about Cascade making them and if anyone has the reach to make some money on the idea it's probably them. There are A LOT of frames out there that the longer dropouts could potentially fit. 

I do think the most likely thing is Kona making them though. In addition to giving folks that option of a more balanced ESD, there are plenty of older frames that could get increased tire clearance or even run a larger wheelsize with longer dropouts.

Reply

Hi_Im_Will
Hi_Im_Will
2 months ago
+1 kcy4130

Another 16mm on those Kona drop outs is going to result in a pretty long/spindly cantilevered arm between the hub and the seat stays.  Would that seat stay/dropout joint survive the extra load?  Probably fine for a lighter/gentler rider, but I'd worry about the welds on the seat stays cracking with more abuse....

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 Kelownakona

The aluminum sliding dropouts themselves would maybe have a bit more material but I’d have zero worries about the steel frame. 

I’ve owned a few Honzo (Honzi?) and Units over the years and they’re absolutely built to last over any concerns about grams.

Reply

Kelownakona
Kelownakona
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

I picked up a singlespeed Unit a few months ago , Im back on flats, Im runnin SQ Labs 16 deg sweep bar on it ... I think Im turning into Andrew!!

Seriously though absolutely loving it. It's like an antidote to what the MTB world has become.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

Hahahahahaha. There’s worse things in the world to become (hopefully).

What tire setup are you sporting on the Unit?

Reply

jt
JT
2 months ago
+1 ZigaK

A new take on Hammerschmidt/Schlumpf/the other co I'm blanking the name of that better marries today's kinematics. Super pipe dream, but I think the idea has merit, which of course means the industry doesn't.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 JT

I think it’s important to recognize the awesome potential of Hammerschmidt but also that add-on any-frame micro-gearbox with just a couple or few ratios is dead. 

Hammerschmidt is dead. May it live forever.

Reply

LoamtoHome
Jerry Willows
2 months ago
+1 Vik Banerjee

I had HS for 1 ride.  Had to take it off due to weight and the inefficiency.

Reply

Vikb
Vik Banerjee
2 months ago
+1 Jerry Willows

The HS sold me on 1x back before that was a thing. The high range drag was so bad I ran it in low all the time and then one day realized I had a very heavy/$$ single ring crank on my bike so I sold it while people were still buying it.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

Yeah, I loved my Hammerschmidt Honzo dinglespeed but there’s a reason I stopped riding it too (multiple actually). More me Hammerschmidt isn’t about the product that was but the product that could have been if it kept involving an improving instead of that universal-gearbox branch of drivetrain development dying off.

Reply

morgan-heater
Morgan Heater
1 month, 3 weeks ago
0

Have you ever tried a Schlumpf mountain-drive? If I had extra $$ to experiment, I would definitely give it a whirl for a two-speed build.

cheapondirt
cheapondirt
2 months ago
+1 Jerry Willows

I dream of being able to buy the new Specialized Hillbilly Grid Trail T9 in Canada soon enough to use it this winter.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 cheapondirt

Specialized T9 rubber is excellent. I wish they brought the compound to their 27x2.8 Butcher and then I wish they brought the Butcher out in a 29x2.8 size.

I know it’s more likely that I’ll grow wings, so it didn’t make a list of possibles.

Reply

MikeMc
Mike McArthur
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

Have the Butcher T9 29x2.6 on my Neuhaus - it's a lot of tire. Suggest you give it a go.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

On my rigid I have the Vigi 2.8” and wish it was bigger. Bontrager 2.6 Butcher is rad with suspension but I’d love more volume for my niche - man can dream.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 cheapondirt

In the meantime, a proper soft Magic Mary is a wicked tire (that I also wish was made in a 29+ size).

Reply

cheapondirt
cheapondirt
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

I'd love to try a purple Mary up front, especially now that it comes in super trail. The orange one I have in the garage lost its appeal after trying T9. It's not a bad tire per se, just more bouncy.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

Yeah, purple up front for sure. As long as they have it in the model you want. Too many SKUs, just like Maxxis.

Reply

LoamtoHome
Jerry Willows
2 months ago
+1 cheapondirt

Ran the HB T9 thicker casing in the rear this year.  My favourite tire.  Going to run T7 grid in the rear to make it last longer.  Specialized had them for $45 online.  Got an older one for 30.  No need for Maxxis gouging.

Reply

papa44
papa44
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

I read about your drivetrain setup before and essentially copied it and have been happy ever since. Hardtail, short cage zee mech, saint shifter mated to hope brakes. Just almost perfect, I only need to change my deore cranks to aeffect so I can run a 28 instead of 30 tooth chainring. My old wheezing arse needs the range more going up than down

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

If your Deore cranks have 64BCD Grannie tabs you could also get a ring from Wolf Tooth or NSBillet. They make narrow-wide 4-bolt/64.

Can’t go wrong with Aeffect R cranks.

Reply

papa44
papa44
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

I did consider that route but figured that new cranks would future proof my setup. Also who doesn’t love a new shiny bike part. Was tempted by the exotic rotor cranks but the 30mm axle put me off

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

My Turbine cranks (30mm) have a personal significance to me, so I wouldn’t trade them, but if I was buying cranks tomorrow it would be 24mm Aeffect R all the way.

Reply

Jotegir
Lu Kz
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

Blackspire badger aluminum cranks and chainrings are currently 50 percent off while 2022 stock lasts. You can pick up a chainring and crankset for 155 bucks shipped with code spire2022. There's your setup there for a smoking deal from an excellent company.

Sure they're a 30mm spindle but for 118 CAD including taxes and shipping who are we to argue.

Reply

papa44
papa44
1 month, 3 weeks ago
+1 Velocipedestrian

A screaming deal and I did hover over the buy button for a bit but I’m not keen on wading into a 30mm axle in a bsa shell. I try and stick to standards having been burnt more than once, as I imagine we all have.

Reply

Jotegir
Lu Kz
1 month, 3 weeks ago
+1 papa44

A man of conviction. You gotta respect it.

Reply

danithemechanic
danithemechanic
2 months ago
+1 papa44

If i remember correctly the Zee is essentially an Slx short cage with a different paint job. I knew you could increase its capacity swapping the direct mount tab with the one of an Slx.

I wonder if also the cage could be swapped, and if it could work crossing a Zee with an higher end derailleur too.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

I don’t know about shared components, but in my entirely anecdotal experience the Zee derailleurs were/are much better assembled. Ample grease on the clutch and they run longer without getting sloppy.

Reply

UFO
UFO
1 month, 3 weeks ago
+1 bushtrucker

At the shifter end, the Zee and Slx 10sp units may well be identical. I wouldn't doubt the RD's are as well aside from branding. I have the Zee short cages on 980 XTR rear derailleur bodies working fantastic, so I'm sure the cages are swappable with SLX as well.

Reply

velocipedestrian
Velocipedestrian
1 month, 3 weeks ago
0

Just looked in the shed, yes, the SLX and Zee derailleur bodies appear identical.

Reply

cyclotoine
cyclotoine
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

I'm a big fan of vests for road riding but never really carried them over to mtb, but it makes sense. In general, I don't like waterproof "breathables" (not really breathable in practice) for biking. I use a soft shell to blunt the wetness and stay warm. I have an M640 in the drawer that was a freebie.... time to press it into service I guess. Maybe I need to buy a hardtail.... but none have long enough sliding dropouts for my XL size!

Reply

Useless
Guy Elliott
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

For the gortex Waterproof vest curious, I had Sateen (near Londondrugs on Lonsdale) convert an old snowboarding hard shell for me - It is soooo good.  It now needs to be biblical for me to use a sleeved jacket.   Very inexpensive to try this and is great to recycle/repurpose something that was collecting dust into something that is now truly good kit

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

Sherry's such a nice person. She converted both my GoreTex vests for me and has also fixed my work clothes more times than I can count. The jeans and knickers I wear at the shop have stitching on stitching on stitching. 

Great shout out!

Reply

yardrec
yardrec
2 months ago
0

All new bikes must have trackends (with deraileur hanger)?

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 yardrec

Sliders! But otherwise I’m in.

Reply

yardrec
yardrec
2 months ago
+1 Andrew Major

Fair enough. I like the no additional moving parts (except the rear axle) of trackends, but I hear ya! I'd settle for slides for sure! :)

Reply

snowsnake
Duncan Wright
2 months ago
0

On the chainring note - I'm still baffled that I see legit mountain bikes coming with bigger than 30t chainrings.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

I’ve had this conversation with a few product managers and it’s all about selling rigs for the global mountain bike environment.

Think of the modern 1x12 system as a bike replacement for a 3x9 drivetrain and it all makes sense. 

But from a custom rig perspective for local riding - yeah, I’ll take a Zee 1x10 and pick a ring that works for me.

Reply

xy9ine
Perry Schebel
2 months ago
0

not sure if i've asked you this before - do you know if the zee will index across 11 speeds? i believe the cable pull is a bit different, but sometimes it kinda / sorta works (good enough). every time i see a wee zee reminds me i want to try a super compact setup.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 Perry Schebel

In my experience, Shimano 10spd & 11spd talk to each other no problem. They even have 10/11 interchangeability with the latest Deore lineup.

At my place we have a couple drivetrains that use 10-spd shifters (XT/XTR) with 11-spd XT derailleurs (11-46t 10-spd cassettes).

Reply

Timer
Timer
1 month, 4 weeks ago
+1 Andrew Major

I have a hard time imagining a place anywhere in the world where a substantial number of customers would regularly spin out 30x10 gearing on a 15kg+ full squish bike with knobbly soft tires.

Reply

velocipedestrian
Velocipedestrian
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

It's aspirational.

Reply

stinhambo
Steven Hambleton
2 months ago
0

My Canyon Spectral came with a 32T Race Face chainring and Canyon told me they don't recommend anything smaller because of chain interference with the chainstay! I'm sure a 30T would be just fine though.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
0

Some frames do have minimum chainring sizes. Sometimes it’s related to optimum kinematics - in which case try a smaller ring - and sometimes it’s actual chain clearance v. the chainstay - don’t want to be sawing through your stays!

Reply

stinhambo
Steven Hambleton
2 months ago
0

Looking at my stays, they're nowhere near (the Spectral carbon is another matter). I hadn't considered kinematics, in what way could they change based on a slightly smaller chainring?

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 months ago
+1 Steven Hambleton

Your anti-squat values are based around a certain chainring size. How much this affects pedaling or pumping performance is going to differ from bike to bike and how notable it actually is or whether it even makes any difference is going to differ from rider to rider.

If clearance isn’t an issue I’d guess you’ll notice zero change going from a 32t to a 30t. On most bikes you could probably throw a 28t on and go about your merry way.

Reply

moutarde_dijon
moutarde_dijon
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

Re: short cage RDs and bulletproof drivetrains

Did anyone have any experience with 10s Shimano Deore Linkglide? I like the short cage, the 11-43 range, and allegedly (substantially?) higher durability. What I do not like is the lack of cross-compatibility to the standard shifter and the HG driver (which will be eaten alive by the cassette in no time). Otherwise... the pull of a 10s Zee RD is strong for my steel HT.

Reply

Hollytron
Hollytron
1 month, 4 weeks ago
0

Dear Shimano please make the last version of your GR9 shoe (with the lace flap) in a mid height with a gaiter.

Reply

Please log in to leave a comment.