Editorial
An Acoustic Curmudgeon's e-Bike Odyssey
Part 1 E-Grooming*
*note - some images below may make sensitive people uncomfortable
Remember when the thought of an article or review of an e-bike was the spark that ignited huge debate on everything from trail use and maintenance to general apathy to the lazy saps using e-bikes to lap our favorite trails. I was definitely from the camp that e-bikes are lame and only lazy sods ride them.
I was also quite vocal with my opinion and happy to share them with those that would listen. I enjoyed the debate but was dismayed as more and more able-bodied friends started riding them just to ride farther, faster and consume more single track. The excuses for transitioning have been both weak and entertaining, everything from “I’m a new dad and only have a one hour ride window per week” to “I’m a pawn in a global conglomerate so I must fly the e-bike flag to keep food on the table” I really have heard it all. One by one I’ve watched the naysays fall prey to the eeevil e-bike gods of trail gluttony and use their new found tools to consume more and more trails.
I’ve been such a naysayer on e-biking that I even refused to try one for years. Cam or Trevor or Rob or Seb would show up for a ride with the latest or greatest kW per hour bike forged in Sodom city and offer me a free pedal but I simply refused. Not because I didn’t think it would be fun, but because I was a principled mountain biker who truly believed these guys to be lazy cheats indulging and bastardizing the trails that our friends worked so hard to build.
Mysteriously, it seems that no photos of Jeremy's first eMTB rides have survived. This is a shot he took of the rest of us scheming about grooming.
This came to a head a couple of years ago when Cam and Pete invited me to Cultus Lake for two days for some pre-launch testing of a new Santa Cruz bike. I had just returned from riding in Europe and my legs were feeling great. After I heard a new Nomad was in the works I was excited. Maybe I’d be the first to try it?
Cam and Pete were giddy when they picked me up but when they arrived there were no bikes in the truck. Not to worry though, as Seb Kemp was bringing us all bikes from the Santa Cruz office in Whistler. We met up with Seb and photographer Adrian for coffee in Yarrow enroute to Vedder. As we stepped out of the shop the boys couldn’t contain their laughter as their inside joke was on me. In the back of Seb’s truck sat a full row of nothing but new Santa Cruz e-bikes. “Fuck-you guys” I said “I’m not going e-biking I’m calling my cousin up the road to go fishing, hell I’d rather go golfing than e-biking.”
Well the joke was on me but I sucked it up and mounted the e-vil temptress as we e-climbed up Vedder in record time. I hated it so much I did three llaps. Adn thenl my battery died and we coasted back to our rented house at the lake. I mean, I truly love mountain biking and I love my friends so I had a good day but it didn’t really wow me. It was exactly what I thought it would be; I had a motor and big battery moving me up the hill and the extra weight made them feel planted but also not nearly as maneuverable and flickable as my favorite acoustic enduro bikes.
Now we did share a lot of laughs that night about how they really got me and there was some great barbs thrown around about how they were grooming me like a catholic priest. I think one of the funniest moments was when they divulged that they really just wanted a photo of me on the e-bike so that they could put it on the bus billboard at Parkgate. My “friends” had pooled money and even went so far to Pattison Outdoor to buy the billboard space but thankfully they were too disorganized to execute the final piece of their plan.
That experience didn’t light a spark in me to save up and buy the next high horsepower e-queen but it kind of reinforced that I didn’t really want one. I had been on plenty of group rides where someone shows up on an e-bike and just ruins the pace. I secretly and not-so secretly hoped the rest of my friends wouldn’t get on the e-bike bandwagon after realizing how tough it was for the acoustic and e-bikes to hang together on a ride.
But some times the universe has other plans….
Jeremy moments after the moto crash that nearly cost him his leg.
Part 2 - The Tipping Point
Life went on for several years after that boondoggle and I purchased and rode several different mountain bikes. As the dad of two active boys, I made the most of my ride windows and didn’t notice the fact that I could only climb 800m in an hour, still enjoying every minute of my ride time. After all, you’re not creating more time, you’re just traveling a little farther within it. I managed to avoid those lost to e-biking and still had my solid core of riding friends who were keen to get lost on a Jer-venture and throw a bike on their shoulder now and then.
But like I said the universe had other plans and I made the mistake of buying a motor. It wasn’t an e-bike motor though; it was an enduro dirt bike. I had grown up with dirt bikes but switched to mountain biking while in college as it was way more practical to keep in an apartment. I was having a lot of fun progressing and learning the ropes of riding and racing downhill. Spending more and more of my summers up in the Bridge River Valley and the surrounding Chilcotin mountains, the dirt bike seemed like the best way to really explore the big country that was inaccessible with just pedals. Ithink that relentless pursuit to explore was me being greedy and the universe had a plan to slow me down.
On July 2nd of 2023 I was out riding moto with a couple of buddies around Gun Lake when it all went wrong. After tangling my bars and cables in some branches, my throttle stuck while descending a steep section of trail. I lost control and crashed into a stand of trees at a high rate of speed. My good buddy Seb Kemp was there to witness that and he saved my life by helping get the bike off me while its throttle was still stuck wide open, the rear tire still spinning and crushing me into those trees.
I cried. Not from joy but from how the ebiking groomers finally got me. All it took was for me to break both my legs.
It was bad. My left leg was shattered and my right leg also seemed to be broken. Thankfully my head, neck and spine were unharmed. We were close to the road so Seb was able to ride for help while Carlos looked out for me. The pain was indescribable but luckily the Gun Lake Volunteer Fire Department was quick to the rescue. They called in a life flight once they realized I was in bad shape. It took 3 hours but they managed to move me to a heli landing zone where the paramedics determined that I had likely cut the artery in my leg and had significant internal bleeding, resulting in compartment syndrome in my left leg. Time was of the essence if they were going to save my leg and perhaps my life.
From there they flew me to the Royal Inland Hospital which happens to have an amazing trauma centre. I was also fortunate that on that sunny Sunday afternoon they had a vascular surgeon on hand who could operate immediately to repair and rework a new vein from my inner thigh into a clean new artery which saved my leg from amputation. They also had to do something called a fasciotomy where they filet open your leg and leave it open for days to relieve the pressure. They then installed an x-fix traction device to hold my leg in place while the things stabilized until they could go back in for reconstructive surgery.
Jeremy's left leg with the X-fix traction device holding his left leg together while his condition stabilized enough for surgery.
I wish I could say that it all went well and I beat the odds in record time but it didn’t work out that way. I was very lucky things weren’t worse; I didn’t die from blood loss, I didn’t lose my leg and I didn’t injure my head or neck on those trees. That was good news but I still had a very long road ahead of me.
I was transferred to Vancouver General where I met the amazing and accomplished mountain biker and orthopedic surgeon Jeff Potter. He and the team at VGH performed a fairly cutting edge procedure called the Abra device which was developed by the military to help close big trauma wounds. I think I had in the neighborhood of 200 stitches and staples in my leg and I spent the next 22 days in hospital where I had 3 more surgeries to reconstruct my left leg with stainless steel plates, pins and bolts. I also went under the knife to repair my right leg which was also broken below the knee.
Unfortunately, a few days after being discharged, I developed an infection in my hardware and returned to Chateau VGH for 22 more days where I needed 5 more surgeries to clear the infection. The team at VGH accomplished a difficult task and saved my leg but by that point I had been bedridden for 2 months. I needed another 2 months of non weight bearing on my left leg so I was only able to move with a wheel chair for about 3 months.
Those e-biking NSMB jerks and great friends did come by on my birthday and helped my family to build me a wheelchair ramp for which I am forever grateful.
But the story isn’t quite over yet. All of those infections and surgeries meant that my left Tibia hadn’t healed very well and wasn’t strong enough to use without a walker or crutches. So I had to build up strength and stamina before they could bring me back in to remove all of the hardware and start fresh. This surgery was on January 2nd, exactly 6 months after the accident. Once the hardware was removed, they prepped me for bone grafts so after 3 more surgeries in April of 2024 I had the core of my right femur removed so that that bone material could be used to rebuild my left tibia. This would mean several more months of without weightbearing, ending with a full year off my feet and bike.
Jeremy being presented with his 'freedom pony' in Whistler.
Part 3 - Learning to Love the Freedom Pony
With any major injury, the friends that have your back go a long way to keep your spirits up and your motivation going. In the spring Seb and the team at Santa Cruz came to my mental health rescue as they knew I needed motivation to get me through some dark months of surgery and false recovery starts. They, along with the owners of Dunbar Corsa bike shop, presented me with a new purple Heckler SL e-bike last March. I cried. Not from joy but from how the ebiking groomers finally got me. All it took was for me to break both my legs.
That bike sat in my garage for 3 months while I continued to work hard at physio and rehab to build the strength back up in my legs. I was still on crutches when I finally worked up the nerve to take it out. Despite only being able to bend my left knee 50% I was able to pedal and that purple Heckler became my freedom machine. Finally I was able to leave the house on my own, just being able to ride around the park and the neighborhood gave my mental health a much needed boost. As the summer rolled around I was still struggling with the after-affects of having the leg rebuilt and still on crutches, but the e-bike allowed me to get out and explore the fire roads and ATV tracks around our Gun Lake Cabin. Without the e-bike I simply did not have the strength to climb and it became a fantastic tool giving me the freedom to get back outside. Even though I wasn’t able to walk more than 200m, I was biking 15-20 km loops for 2 hours at a time. For months I had to strap my cane to the top tube when I went on rides in case anything went wrong.
Mission accomplished. Jeremy with Seb Kemp.
While riding my Heckler SL, I’ve had some interesting discussions with fellow e-bikers about using these as tools to overcome health issues. I have a colleague who has a heart issue and couldn’t keep up with his crew any longer for fear that the redlined heart rate could cause an attack. That ebike kept him on the trails. I ran into an old friend and mountain biking OG in his mid-70’s who talked about how his ebike has kept him a part of his regular riding group of guys in their 50’s. He was struggling to keep up and the e-bike gave him that little extra boost he needed to participate and maintain those friendships.
Father son ride time in the Chilcotins.
As I’ve spent the last 6 months learning to love the e-bike, it’s given me the wings I needed to be independent again. The Heckler SL is an amazing package of low weight with a strong motor capable of raising my cadence to a point where I can make it up steeper climbs even though only my right leg is generating significant power.
This fall I had my old crew of riding buddies up to my cabin to finally get back into the Chilcotin’s which has long been my happy place for riding. While I wasn’t able to ride into the alpine single track, I did a 22km round trip ride up to Taylor Cabin with my friends. This wouldn’t have been possible without the e-assist. It was so good in fact, the only person that could keep pace with their handicapped buddy was Dylan Wolsky, who many of you may remember as the Aussie dingo capable of incredible feats of strength.
Jeremy back in the saddle for a ride with buddies in the Chilcotins.
These past 6 months have given me a fresh perspective on e-bikes and their applications for people that really do need them. My judgement of eMTBers I encounter has also changed; not every one is a lazy as I used to think. Whether it’s coming back from injury or succumbing to the never-ending march of time, these bikes will help you continue to get out there with your friends. For those of you on e-bikes who are still strong and at the peak of your riding fitness…. you’re just lazy.
I know one thing for sure, I can’t wait for the day to be strong enough to pedal my analog Hightower out into the wilderness for hours on end. In the meantime I’ll be hiding my smile on my bright purple freedom pony😊
Comments
Mtbikesince87
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Imagine a life where you're mad about how other people have fun. If the trails are open to whatever you choose to do on those trails I hope you enjoy yourself. If you're judging other people and know nothing of their life or background, you're the ass.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Imagine a world where you followed that logic to its end point . . .
Motorcross riders on your local, lovingly hand built trails? Bring it on!
Maybe you’re the ass for being directly hypocritical? Ever thought of that?
Reply
Mtbikesince87
2 weeks, 4 days ago
How am I being hypocritical if the trail is open to what ever you enjoy? I ride moto trails on my bike, I share trails with horses, no motors on non motorized trails, it's simple really.
Sorry not sorry you're such an angry dude and can't read that well.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Notice you didn't answer about wanting motocross on your bicycle trails?
Interesting.
And also interesting your completely into gatekeeping.
Reply
Mtbikesince87
2 weeks, 4 days ago
LOL! I'm only responding because you are so easily triggered.
What don't you understand about no motors on non motorized trails?? Are you purposely thick?
Bye Boo
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
As the guy that was triggered you might need to look into a mirror sometime.
Seems you are projecting.
Kos
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Well, he did clearly stipulate "If the trails are open to whatever you choose to do on those trails I hope you enjoy yourself" so I think that rules out motocross bikes on mtb-specific trails.
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Mtbikesince87, I think you're missing the point that most who are against electric motor bikes are as such because they try to use to gain access to NON motorized trails by trying to convince people that they are the SAME as a normal bike, they just have a little assist. All you need do is spell out the name completely as I do now and you can easily see the MOTOR in electric MOTOR bike - go ride where motors are allowed ;-)
Oh and yeah, where d you stop, why should a person who'd injured/recovering/has a physical disability not choose to just ride or be given permission to ride on non motoroized trails because, well according to your view, everyone should have and be allowed to do everything, time, work whatever be damned, give me that Porsche for my Chevy Geo $$
Reply
Mark
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Barry, you're picking a fight over something Mtbikesince87 did not say. You owe them an apology imho.
Reply
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 3 days ago
I’m pretty sure that isn’t in his repertoire.
Reply
Brian Moreaux
2 weeks, 2 days ago
I agree. This was a great article and it’s clear that the author has gone through hell and back. Doesn’t change the fact that his character judgements based on toy preference are childish.
Reply
Lee Lau
2 weeks, 4 days ago
So happy you made it through Jer
Still love this "For those of you on e-bikes who are still strong and at the peak of your riding fitness…. you’re just lazy"
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Thanks Lee
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I have to admit I was never a great athlete but I bought my Bullit with one of my 1st OAS checks and so now i just have to aim it
Reply
motdoc
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Was I lazy when I went to medical school and learned how to put people back together? Or lazy when I paid the taxes so motorcyclists can have 11 surgeries? Or is it because I’d rather get a quick lap in and see my family after work than not get out all?
Asking so you can judge me! Lazy bastard that I am.
Reply
Couch_Surfer
2 weeks, 1 day ago
you were lazy when you skipped the straw man argument lesson in debate class.
Reply
motdoc
2 weeks, 1 day ago
I really hope the OP recovers well. Good luck!
Calling people lazy, is lazy. The irony of a motorcyclist calling an e-MTBer lazy was too much for me, normally wouldn’t throw stones but there you go.
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks ago
Don't worry Doc, you're not lazy and I'm glad you put the time in to help put people together. I think that instantly makes you a selfless individual and I'm grateful for people like you.
The point about judging people was meant to be tongue in cheek and stir up this debate. Consider it that I was looking at the audience as riding friends that I could call lazy to their face in a friendly manner.
I was also being honest in how humans judge one another whether they will admit to it or not. Our fun sport has changed a lot over the 25 years I've been doing it and we're all guilty of judging changes to technology, new rider groups or trail building methods. I just think putting in print got some people riled up which was kind of my goal in a fun non-hateful way.
If you're local drop a me a DM as I'm always happy to give doctors free shuttles up Seymour :)
And if it makes you feel any better I think I've paid enough taxes to cover my own healthcare bills.
Reply
motdoc
2 weeks ago
Thanks for the reply. I guess it’s probably a linguistic thing. The sentence implies that by riding an e bike I am a lazy person, this is not true. However if the sentence said by riding and ebike I was being lazy, for me that is fair game ;) I say worse things about people on motorcycles, tearing up the trails. Old man shouts at clouds….
Also healthcare should be free for all and I was just bitching. We’d better not be the 51st state though or that that ruined.
Reply
XXX_er
1 week, 6 days ago
Actualy from my experience riding a 30hp/ 240lb dirt bike back in the day it was a LOT of work , it was more work than either an e-bike or an acoustic just hang to hang on
And if you get a dirt bike stuck you might be pretty screwed trying to get it out
so anybody who thinks its easy or requires no effort or dirt bikers are lazy.
is clueless
same with sledders, their m/c weigh 400lb and have WAY mo power
Reply
motdoc
1 week, 6 days ago
Fascinating, so you’re saying that something that’s heavier but has a powered uplift can provide a workout? Who knew? Who would make such a point? The reason I don’t like motos is the noise but I don’t really care very much.
For me the e-bike has rapidly helped my pretty shitty skills. I imagine people who ride moto get skills quickly.
XXX_er
1 week, 5 days ago
yeah an open moto-X bike has a crazy power-to-weight ratio of a 10 second dragster, but its not 10seconds you gotta hang on to a world cup GP moto bike for 45 minutes and they do 2 heats of 45 min so the guys riding doing 2x 45 minute heats were tested at the same level of fitness as a world cup soccer player . so that just speaks to lazy/ out of shape or any of that other BS cuz what it boils down to is the wankers really have no clue. Ride a dirt bike hard for for 1/2 hr your arms/ body will be done/you will be out of breath , I havent ridden dirt bikes in a very long time, never rode snow machies, i don't really like the noise either
Mark
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Awesome sauce about surviving that ordeal and getting back to health and living a life worth living.
I wish we would all drop the acoustic/analog monikers for bicycles tho.
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 4 days ago
sometime I use " Amish bike " and you are welcome to
Reply
Jotegir
2 weeks, 3 days ago
This comment has been removed.
AndrewR
2 weeks, 3 days ago
I agree. There are bikes (and by the accuracy conveyed with that simple, single world, must there fore not be powered by an e-motor) and e-bikes (which is also self explanatory).
Then there are throttle activated e-bikes which do belong either on the road, on a dirt bike trail or back in the seventh circle of hell.
Reply
Suns_PSD
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I used to be pretty anti-ebike as well. Glad that I grew up. What a stupid thing to judge people about.
Reply
BeesIntheTrap
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Maybe if the ebike fans did their own advocacy and stopped trying to gaslight everyone into accepting that bikes with motors are non motorized then people wouldn't be so judgy.
Reply
Mark
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Do you have stats on the percentage of mtb'ers that do advocacy and the percentage of ebikers who do advocacy in order to compare them?
People on ebikes generally don't claim they aren't motorized, they say they are pedal assist. There's a difference there that has to be acknowledged. Either way, if they're riding on ebike legal trails why are you (and others) so judgy about people using them where they are allowed to?
Reply
BeesIntheTrap
1 week, 6 days ago
Every experience I've had with ebike riders has involved an entitled rider who ignores the rules and is absolutely brazen about it. Jeprodizing access and pissing everyone else off in the process.
I don't, no, but anecdote tells me that I don't see a single ebiker at trail nights, other than those who are employed to do so, and they're hauling tools. If you have any evidence I'd the contrary I'd love to hear it. That's both for trail work and not claiming they're not motorized because the latter is how nearly every internet debate on the subject goes. Something along the lines of "if you'd ridden one then you wouldn't be a hater" and then "well, they're not motorized anyway, as. I still need to pedal"
Reply
Curveball
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Same here, Suns.
Reply
Frorider
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I think (hope?) nearly all of us understand how motor assisted vehicles improve quality of life (ride with friends!) for those with various physical limitations. The challenge comes in defining ‘what’ level of limitation qualifies, and how to implement the distinction.
However what sticks with me is the ‘privileged behavior’ argument some deeper thinkers have made. If I get older & my knees get creaky, I can afford a nice Emtb to get me to the alpine lakes. Should I automatically have that motor-assist access? Or maybe just to some alpine lakes, but other zones should be reserved for actual human powered access?
And what does friendship mean in this context? I have many friends who can’t do the long backcountry ski tours and mtb rides I prefer but can happily do a shorter tour or ride at a slower pace. Naturally there’s a part of me that (selfishly) would enjoy doing a fast paced ‘real’ trip with them if they have a motor to assist them, but I have and will continue to get stoked by intentionally choosing the shorter / slower tour or ride as a demonstration of friendship. Otherwise my friendship is implying a request that they buy an Emtb to keep up.
No easy answers. I’m not an Emtb hater but I’m also interested in thoughtful conversations on the limits that apply. Sometimes I feel people haven’t really thought through the broader implications as our entire society finds technology solutions to injuries and, well, aging.
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks, 4 days ago
The friendship piece a big one. Your friends will certainly try to adapt shorter rides to ride with you again but the physical limitations prevent you from taking those longer adventures and journeys together so you end up growing apart. It's not intentional but it is the reality that you eventually get left behind as our social circles are so tied to shared adventures. In my experience anyway.
Reply
Kerry Williams
2 weeks, 4 days ago
It sure is a big piece of the pie, and as cycling experiences and life circumstances change, our friendship circle will also inevitably change. I for one, would never want my friends who are getting into bikepacking to stop just because I'm not interested in it. Embrace the good times, because the world changes as time marches on. Well said JerVenture. And great story too by the way.
Reply
BewaretheKragle
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Great article, but reading this thread and watching it basically get derailed by one person is ridiculous. BarryW is allowed his opinion, it's always going to be the same negative opinion and we are never going to change it. The majority of his word count has been responding to people questioning his rationale.
Perhaps it's time for something different (call it #OperationIgnoreBarry) let him speak his piece and no one reply, just ignore it. Without our continued interaction with his view point his comment(s) would be like farting into the wind. It happened we can smell it but it's gone before you know it.
Give it a try it's easier than you think
#OperationIgnoreBarry
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 3 days ago
yeah so at least Lynx sez he doesn read or commnent on e-bike articlas while Barry has always wanked up e-bike articals from the get-go and so the people writing the articls and running the board won't stop him, you really can't stop him, all one can do is just hope he goes away however that happens
Reply
colemaneddie
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Great article Jeremy, thanks for sharing.
I'm about 7 months off of a spinal fusion from a T1 - T5 compression fracture, and the e-bike has been a huge help for me. I think what the naysayers in the comments are missing is that the e-bike, which does help a bit physically for building strength, is really about keeping your sanity. It gives you something you can't get from doing reps at the gym or even pedaling a bike around town: the thrill and the adventure of getting out there and going fast.
Going from getting the dopamine and adrenaline rush from the big, fun rides multiple times a week to not having any for months on end really takes a toll on the mind. Getting the fix in during recovery does wonders to keeping your head up and staying positive. It motivates you to want to go to the gym and keep recovering.
Also being able to hang out with friends you really only see on the trail keeps the positivity and hope growing every time you get out, and with the e-bike you don't have to slow them down. You can ride what you'd normally ride, just a little more cautiously.
Riding the e-bike to stay happy during your recovery is key IMO. Keep it up!
Reply
Koelschejung
2 weeks, 3 days ago
I always thought the comment section on NSMB was miles away from the one on Pinkbike. A place of exchange for rational, respectful friends of mountainbiking, far away from any dogmatism. So much noise, especially at the start of the year is completely bonkers! I don't give a fuck what bike someone rides. As long as the person ist happy.... BINGO!
Reply
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 3 days ago
The typo that almost turned your statement into “I don't give a fuck what bike someone rides, as long as the person isn’t happy...” got me thinking.
That could be a slogan for some riders.
Reply
Jotegir
2 weeks, 4 days ago
"“I’m a pawn in a global conglomerate so I must fly the e-bike flag to keep food on the table" is a 10/10 line and I really hope it came from an accountant or electrician or something and not a professional mountain biker/sales rep/industry employee.
Reply
Todd Hellinga
2 weeks, 4 days ago
sell out....you destroyed me up to the Taylor cabin, although definitely could've taken you on the descent back to the truck!
Reply
Ryan
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Some of these comments are really disappointing to see. Jeremy shared a story of a tragic accident and his path to recovery, and there is more hate and name calling on this thread than even reviews of e-bikes on this same site. Shameful. Regardless of your opinions on electrified kids-toys-for-adults in the woods, I’d urge everyone to practice empathy and kindness. I know many of these things wouldn’t be said to anyone’s face, and hiding behind a keyboard is not cool.
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Jeremy himself called out that he himself was/did as such, so now because he likes them, he's somehow forgiven, like if he went and confessed and therfor is somehow no longer filled with sin. Come now man, live by the sword, die by the sword and Jeremy himself doesn't seem to have taken offense or at least let it bother him, you know - sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me - something that needs to be reintroduced and reinforced in this world these days.
Reply
Ryan
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Lynx - while the sticks and stones stuff is true, so is basic respect and decency. I don’t know why you’re picking this hill to die on. In kindergarten we also learned if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 3 days ago
So if someone presents an argument/comment that I don't agree with, just because they won't like my take on it, I shouldn't reply so they don't get upset and have a nice day, what about the fact that I don't like their comment/take/argument, what about my rights - amazing how the left thinks.
Reply
Mark
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Lynx, you and Barry would benefit from some reading comprehension lessons. Ryan didn't say you couldn't disagree or present an alternative view on a topic, he just suggested you don't be a dink about it.
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 3 days ago
@Mark - don't see where I've been a "dink" in anything I've said/typed, I haven't called anyone any names, I haven't actually cussed anyone, so where's the dinkness may I ask? If I wasn't politically correct in your mind, or had a differing view point, well in that regard, tough $hit, this whole political/far left crap has gone too far, it needs push back and if your feelings are easily hurt and you want a safe space, well then I suggest you keep off the interwebs, cause I sure as hell will not be bullied into silence or have my thoughts cancelled.
Ryan
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Thank you Mark. At this point I feel like it’s not worth responding further, but since Lynx made the point about politics - nothing I (or anyone else) has posted on this thread is politically charged, right/left, or “woke”. I was simply making a comment about tone and respect. If you look at US politics, Donald Trump and Mike Johnson stand for largely the same policies, but there is a vast difference in how they carry themselves and interact with others, despite both being right wing politically. I don’t think a funeral is an appropriate time to air your grievances about the deceased, and I found this comment section a distasteful place to aggressively debate whether or not e-bike are ruining North America / mountain biking / the environment.
Mark
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Lynx, you don't need to outright cuss anyone or call people names in order to come across as a numpty. You're presenting this attitude that people who ride ebikes are somehow less than those who don't. You present specious rebuttals that do not reflect the intent or words of the person you're replying to. You're generally telling people that you don't care what they have to say, they're wrong and you're right simply because you don't like ebikes. When it comes to the topic of ebikes you generally present the same flaccid points every time. Essentially you're arguing that only people who eat chocolate ice cream are good and justified and that people who eat other flavours are wrong and flawed. Oh and yeah, you chose to castigate people on "the left" when nobody had brought politics into this. That's your own personal bias at play.
I've seen plenty of times where you've made interesting and valuable comments on a range of topics, but in this case you're definitely being a pest.
Lynx .
2 weeks, 3 days ago
And Mark, what's wrong with me having my opinion and stating it as what I believe, I am allowed to counter the "E-bikes are manor sent from heaven", aren't I?
Maybe left ain't the right term, but that's where most with this woke/lazy attitude tend to fall, those who don't want to work for most anything, want it all given to them, so to speak, the ones who say "Be kind to all" unless of course they don't agree with you, then absolutely castigate them and try to cancel them for having an opinion different to theirs.
Mark
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Lynx there's nothing wrong with you having an opposing opinion, the problem is in how you express it. This last comment of yours exemplifies that as you're making some gross generalizations.
We all get it, you hate ebikes and ebikers. There are times when ebike dislike is warranted and times when it isn't. You don't make that differentiation though, it's just blanket hate.
Lynx .
2 weeks, 2 days ago
@Mark, I think maybe you should take a bit of your own advice and brush up on whole reading comprehension thing, because I CLEARLY made that differentiation when I posted my first reply to this piece and said/wrote this......
[quote=Lynx] I think that most who have and ride them are lazy/entitled and use a lot of other things as an excuse to have/ride them that are life choices, not anything physical that makes it necessary, HOWEVER, I have NEVER had a problem with anyone using/riding one who has a legit reason/need for one, like yourself, for that I think they're great, that and commuting to get more vehicles off the roads.[/quote]
Mark
2 weeks, 2 days ago
@Lynx - nope, wrong context. I was responding to your reply to Ryan, not that other post of yours.
You're trying to take an absolute position on a highly subjective topic - that doesn't work. It's presumptive god-like thinking, thinking you know what's best for all people. In your head you have determined what a "legit" reason is for riding them, and that doesn't mesh with the reality of the world.
That's why I labeled your behaviour as being a dink. Your personal perception of what should and should not be for others is definitely dinkish. You get to make the decision for yourself if you don't want to ride an ebike, you don't get to make that decision for others.
Lynx .
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Again Mark, reading comprehension. So just in case you missed it the I don't know how many times, I THINK/IMHO is always there in my replies unless someone like you tries to derail/twist stuff, then sometimes I forget. I'm allowed to think what I want and I'm also allowed to share that idea and believe in that idea, once I'm doing no one any harm other than maybe making them take a little look in the mirror and maybe feeling a bit bad.
banned
2 weeks, 2 days ago
Look inwards, Lynx. Look inwards.
Reply
Mark
2 weeks, 2 days ago
That's just it tho Lynx, starting with I think or IMHO is not a get out of jail free card for you to be a dink with your opinions.
You've posted ad nauseum about how ebikers are lazy, entitled, evil or somehow ruining the sport. It's pretty much become your identity here - same for Barry and others. If there's ebike content here the question is how long till the ebike hate gang shows up to voice their displeasure?
You seem to not like people pushing back against you for your opinions yet give no concern as to how your opinions might affect others. You've said it a few times that you'll share your opinion and don't care who it bothers. That exemplifies the heights of selfishness. This is why people have a problem with your anti-ebike rants.
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Funny thing is, I don't go into e-bike specific articles/reviews, but, when one is put out purporting their "manor from heaven" status and they were a hater, but Ooo I'm a convert, then yes I'm going to share my opinion - check any e-bike article /review, you won't see me comment, I'm not interested in giving any sort of bump for the manufacturers sales.
As to being a dink when sharing my opinion that I think that all who use them are deep down lazy and choose something else as "priority" over doing the pedalling themselves. It's life choices Dude, no one forced you to do any of it, so what you have a family, a 60 hour a week job.....you chose that and you choose that over putting in hours on the pedals.
Anyway, it the last I'll comment here, because, you don't seem to get that you're the exact flip side to me, saying the same thing, over and over, without any give ;-)
Mark
2 weeks, 1 day ago
That would be a nope again Lynx.
I encourage thoughtful discussion on ebikes and in them have brought up some of the legitimate issues they present myself. I even started a discussion on the topic in the forums to try and bring some sense to the topic:
https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/emtb-forum-26/topic/why-i-dont-want-an-ebike-but-i-dont-hate-them-130799/?page=1
It's entirely possible to discuss the ebike issue without resorting to making derogatory comments. I'll say the same thing to the others as well who take on a negative stance. For example I used to be friends with Lee and Sharon, but when ebikes first became a thing and I didn't take their derogatory view I caught all sorts of shit for it from a lot of different people - including some others on here who were vehemently against ebikes at one point.
It all comes down to promoting good riding etiquette, and than applies to whatever type of bike you're riding.
flatch
2 weeks, 2 days ago
This comment has been removed.
Elmer Hicks
2 weeks, 1 day ago
A motor is a motor. It's absurd that the E-bikers of the world feel so judged and defensive about this. I love riding mountain bikes AND dirt bikes, and I'm pretty sure that I'd have a ton of fun on an E-bike or Surron.
Public land agencies and trail system managers are shooting themselves in the foot by not sticking to the one black and white designation available here: that being motorized vs. non-motorized. As battery and electric motor technologies continue to evolve there will be thousands of new gadgets and doodads invented for trail shredding. This is great, it will allow for more people to get out and recreate, work through injuries and enjoy public lands, including my aging carcass. But for the love of god, put them in the correct category!
Public lands and trails should be managed for a variety of experiences. And this is a great opportunity for dirt bikers and e-bikers to rally together to maintain and expand motorized singletrack opportunities. But please, save us this bullshit that e-bikes and bicycles are the same thing.
Reply
Sebov
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I had hip surgery on each side during the last summer due to impingement syndrome, ebike was a pure joy for my recovery.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Not claiming it isn't fun, but it isn't required. Hard work is a lost art it seems.
Reply
loren
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Barry, just stop. You're making an ass of yourself and digging your hole deeper with each additional comment.
Reply
Kos
2 weeks, 4 days ago
What a great tool to help with the physical and psychological challenges of your recovery, Jeremy! Glad it has worked out for you.
I’m going to get an e-bike just to ride with Lynx! :-)
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Kos, once you have the ability to completely turn the motor off and can still pedal it under your own steam, you're more than welcome, if not, go ride with the other moto boys :-p
Reply
Kos
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Thankfully, the Fuel EX-e that I did some testing on qualifies, so we can ride together (and it was no slouch with the motor off). It was fun. I wasn't ready to go all-in, yet, but at 65 I can see it there, at the end of the (not very long) tunnel!
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Well Kos, as long as you can completely disable the motor, you're good then ;-)
Just so's you know I fully understand the differences between the bikes, I have a friend who bought an Sworks one and he'd come on rides with the motor turned off and he had no problems, bike weighed about 36lbs. Sadly he just bought a full powered one because when he rode with the other electric MOTOR bike riders, he just couldn't keep up.
People think that those of us who "hate on" electric MOTOR bikes haven't tried one, but I did, or at least as far as I needed to prove the point to myself that even in "eco" mode the damn thing did pretty much all the work for you. I hoped on one, it was in almost the hardest gear, I lightly pressed on the pedals and the thing shot off like I'd given it all and was a pro level rider, that's not for me and yeah, sorry.
If you don't have some physical impairment, you're just lazy, full stop, don't give a flying fvck what you think or say. The thing about don't have the time - make time, no one has a problem telling me I should work harder if I want nice/fancy things, but when I tell them that they should work harder if they want to do more laps, I'm the dick, right :-\ I choose where I spend my time and it's not chasing money and material things, I hold onto and use stuff as long as I can, 50% of my clothes are hand me downs from family that were being tossed because they were "old", yet to me were still perfectly fine.
Maybe those who aren't closed minded might understand when they read this, but I'm guessing that most here won't...but I started MTBing when I was 34, because I had been heavy into computers and gaming for about 7 years and had a resting HR of 74bpm. I pulled out my old 40lb, steel, 80s Schwinn road bike and started to ride to try and build my fitness, but it was always too small, bought in college at the end of the 80s for $20 USD.
So I decided that I'd get a new bike and had had friends that used to ride MTB in the late 90s and thought, yeah, that'd be a fun way to get exercise and so bought an "expensive" MTB with 2 wheelsets, one with semi slicks, the other with knobbies, the plan being to continue to build fitness on the road and then when I got fitter, to go exploring and see what trails I could find. Well, I put in the hard work, found a short 10 mile loop that took me about an hour and 10min when I first started and within a couple months had that down to about 40 minutes and had dropped my resting HR to 60bpm. So yeah, I take offense to people who, to me corrupt the sport, fuelled by nasty corporate greed to sell more.
Oh and to those who always bring up, but shuttling's OK BS, no, no it's not and I don't do it. When we went to Crested Butte, Colorado, we pedalled the first 2 days, 26 miles and 6 hours the first, 20ish and 4.5 hours the 2nd and then the next 2 were supposed to be in the bike park. I tried the first day using the lift, did I think 3 laps in total, did not enjoy it, ended up just going walking sight seeing, the next day I had brought my own bike and so had to pack it, so agreed to do one last ride with the guys in the morning. While they waited for the lift to open, I pedalled up, ended with about 5 miles of climbing on sweet single track and it was the absolute best ride.
Reply
jhtopilko
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Valid points, when my rhr is over 50 I know I'm going to have issues riding that day. I don't run or ride as often as I used to, do it's usually around 48, but I had a week at 53 in December.
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 2 days ago
3 years after I started riding, my resting HR was 41bpm, all because of MTBing and putting in the work.
When I started one guy I knew told me, "If you want to get strong, put it in the big ring and stand and crank on the climbs" and that's what I did. Then another strong rider told me, "If you really want to get strong swap out that MTB cassette for a road 25-12 cassette" and I did and I rode in the same cog up climbs as when I had a 32-11 cassette, so say 3rd largest cog on each and I got stronger.
leon-forfar
1 week, 4 days ago
"If you don't have some physical impairment, you're just lazy, full stop, don't give a flying fvck what you think or say. The thing about don't have the time - make time, no one has a problem telling me I should work harder if I want nice/fancy things, but when I tell them that they should work harder if they want to do more laps, I'm the dick, right :-\"
"when I first started and within a couple months had that down to about 40 minutes and had dropped my resting HR to 60bpm. So yeah, I take offense to people who, to me corrupt the sport,"
Yeah, you kind of are the dick here. This is the kind of attitude that sucks in the mountain bike world. People like this think they are "above" others because they are "earning their turns". I think people forget that most of us get into mountain biking for fun, and not necessarily as a way to get in shape. Sure that's a bonus, but it's not (and shouldn't be) the only reason to mountain bike. There are lots of safer, more mundane ways of getting/staying in shape if that's all you care about. I might personally think you're squirrely for finding climbing "fun", but I would never want you to stop having fun however you see fit if it doesn't affect me at all. If your idea of a fun bike ride was to make me into a human ladder bridge to ride over, then I would disagree with your idea of fun being ok. But so long as it doesn't affect me directly, who am I to judge how you have fun?
"Just make time". It's a silly way of looking at things, a terrible argument, and MUCH MUCH easier said than done in reality. You think it's a good idea for a person who has a stable career in a 9-5 job, a partner, and kid(s), should just quit their job and start their career again and throw their stable life into shambles so they can "make time" just so they don't ride an E-bike? That's about as good an idea as suggesting a parent put their kid(s) up for adoption, you know, so we don't have to choose between not fitting a ride in or riding an E-bike. When your Monday to Friday consists of waking up at 6:30 to get your kid(s) fed and watered and ready for daycare/ school, driving them to said daycare/school, going to work for 9, finishing at 5 and picking up the kid(s), making dinner, tending to kid(s) until you get them in bed by 7-9, and your weekends consist then of spending family time and maybe a bit of "fun" time if time allows, tell me where there is time for more than maybe one ride a week in there? That's just another reason why they should and do exist. You don't have to be disabled or injured to benefit from an E bike. And what you choose to ride doesn't affect anyone but yourself, so why care what others are choosing to ride. As Jeremy points out in this article, you don't know what that person's story is and why they chose to ride an e bike that day. Most able-bodied people you see on an E-bike probably have a regular bike that is their main whip, and the few that don't wouldn't care what someone else thinks about their choice of how to have fun anyways.
"Maybe those who aren't closed minded might understand when they read this"
Ironic eh? I wouldn't call it "open minded" to hate on how other people are enjoying their time in nature. Ultimately, someone else riding an E-bike changes absolutely nothing about how you can enjoy the sport on a personal level. It corrupts nothing. All it has done is add another type of bike to the landscape, and you can keep pedaling along to whatever trail it is you were going to. As long as people are having fun, I support them.
Reply
Curveball
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I hate e-bikes. Oh wait. Hold on there. No, that was a past tense thing. It was Paul Basagiotia who changed my mind. I came to very much appreciate the freedom and joy that they brought to him. I fully accept e-bikes for other people, for whatever reason they may choose.
I still hate them, but for me only. As present circumstances allow.
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks, 3 days ago
That's what I'm saying!
Reply
albert03
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I'll stick with my low-maintenance hardtail as long as I can.
Well-told tale. You are fortunate to have such good friends.
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Everytime some-one powers on an e-bike a kitten dies, braaap
Reply
papa44
2 weeks ago
What the fuck happened in here? Has pinkbike shut down their comment section?
Reply
Bose-nONK
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Well done - it's good to be humble
Reply
jhtopilko
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Acoustic is a word that has a different meaning than being used here. acoustice means relating to sound or the sense of hearing. Bikes, ebikes, motor bikes , all can colloqially be called bikes to the right audience.
Reply
Jotegir
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Hey, maybe Jeremy has a guitar review blog called the Acoustic Curmudgeon and any association with bikes is simply coincidental!
Acoustic is a fantastic way to refer to non-electric bikes. Not because of the term's technical accuracy, but because it seems to upset people, which is funny.
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I was trying to tie in every cliche I could. I think my new folk blog will find a wayto tie in both bikes and guitars.
Reply
jhtopilko
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Those tie ins will be effort spent!
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 4 days ago
This must have been how it was for Bob Dylan
Reply
tmoore
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Dylan probably didn't give a rat's ass and I can just imagine the response they'd get from Neil Young.
Reply
Graham Driedger
2 weeks, 3 days ago
When Old Neil brought out Prairie Wind in the mid-2000s, post brain aneurysm, I thought he'd chill and play acoustic for the rest of his days. Turns out he's a cagey bastard who will give the finger to just about anyone still - Old Black plugged into the Deluxe is still on full puke with Crazy Horse!
Reply
ZigaK
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Can't get past crocs pic
Reply
Ryan
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Best shoe ever made!
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Believe me I cringed too at those croc photos too. Never owned a pair until this accident. They were categorized in my brain with ebikes, SUP's and Mustangs.
Reply
Mike Ferrentino
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Are we related?
Reply
Cooper Quinn
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Oh, come on.
Reply
Morgan Heater
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I didn't know there were ugly mustangs from that era.
Reply
Kos
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Pure heresy to lump Mustangs in with SUPs. Begone with you!
Reply
Jotegir
2 weeks, 3 days ago
He's contractually obligated to hate on em'.
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 3 days ago
KOS, my bad, I gave Coopers' post a like, thought he was showing something gorgeous (well minus the scoops behind the windows, they're questionable) love that '67 Fastback "Gloria" edition Shelby Mustang, second only to the Shelby Cobra of that same time, but in blue of course.
Reply
g-42
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Jeremy,
I'm sorry for what you've been through, and I'm glad to you're seeing real progress. You are absolutely right about eebs being an awesome recovery, mental health, and assist tool, and I'm glad it's worked for you in that way. That's awesome, and of a piece with what I keep seeing (folks able to ride through chemo, various injury recoveries, long-term issues like arthritis, and a bunch of other things that would have kept them off the trail otherwise).
What puzzles me a bit, is your insistence on labeling those who just choose to ride e-MTBs because they're fun as lazy. Laziness, or sloth, is considered a deadly sin in some circles. That's a pretty big hammer and seems a bit judgy, implying a moral wrong. What exactly does those people's use of eebs do that impacts those who choose to stay away from them? I'm not seeing you judge people who ride park or shuttle - surely, they're lazy as well then? Or is that different for some reason? And by extension, by using a bike rather than just running on our rad trails in some sort of forest parkour style, are we lazy for using a mechanical device?
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks, 4 days ago
If there was a sarcasm emoji I would have used it. But I do have some lazy friends who insist on bringing ebikes on our group rides because they are too lazy to get back into shape. The labels are simply there to trigger some folks and I'm glad its working....still waiting for Wade to chime in..lol
Reply
Jerry Willows
2 weeks, 4 days ago
he's probably too busy maintaining the trails... /s
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks, 4 days ago
lol
Reply
Dave Smith
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Nice to see you back out there, Jer!
Reply
Yoondaman
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
Reply
SteveR
2 weeks, 3 days ago
That's quite the dust-up over an inspiring story of recovery! Similarly, e-bikes have been a great rehab aid to a couple of my friends after injury or serious disease. More power to that! In my late 60's, dedication, genetics and probably some luck allow me to still be able to propel myself without needing a motor, and am fine with reducing my expectations as I age. No doubt at some point I will consider adding some boost if I choose to continue with MTB, and I will be fine when that day comes, too. Having said that- I do have concerns about the ongoing creeping motorization of bicycling, and where that might be leading us. Are we heading into a future where MTB is a motorsport?
Ranters on both "sides"- Barry, Lynx, XXX etc- you need to take a time out!
Reply
[email protected]
2 weeks ago
Great read, I'm so sorry to hear about that accident, unreal how complex it was to heal, so many days in the hospital, that must have been so hard being away from your family, the pain, and mental anguish.
I'm on the same trail as you with e-bikes, the very same, searching for all the reasons to let it go, its really hard though as friends turn to them, are never tired, but the hangout really hasn't changed, why is the mindset so hard to let go of? is it for ourselves? Must be more careful on my Husaberg, its not nearly fun as MTB, but nice to have something else to do when the E-crew and ultra riders are doing big days I can't handle. Heal up, I mean, what can't you handle in life after an experience like that? nothing.
Reply
Mark
2 weeks ago
I think a large part of it comes down to bruised egos. Including some stoicism in your mindset can alleviate that.
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 3 days ago
NSMB started and is based on the north shore of Vancover BC, there are now a lot of mtb area's paid for by the province of BC, they will have a sign saying no motor vehicals, class 1 E-bike permitted, no class 2, no class 3, no motorcycle, no horses SO E-bike freindly areas are entirely legal and paid for by the gov up here . I know some of you are writing from another country, so if you got e-bike probelms they are with your own citizens, cuz just like guns don't kill people so its people who kill people, its not the E-bike its the idiot riding it. I know a local American up here with an e-bike so i asked him about riding down there and he just leaves it up here, I don't think I would ride an e-bike down there either ... I would probably get shot eh
Reply
James Heath
1 week, 6 days ago
I'm here for the Ergon grips on the walking sticks
Reply
JerVenture
1 week, 6 days ago
Good eye. I had to use those sticks for a year. Went through 2 pairs. Money well spent!
Shoot out to the Sun Shine Coasts own Side Stix who makes the coolest carbon walking sticks.
Reply
E-wok
2 days, 19 hours ago
Glad you’re feeling better.
No one needs an excuse or an apology for riding an Emtb
. It’s more like what’s your excuse not to ride one at this point.
Reply
Mark
2 days, 19 hours ago
The "excuse" to not ride one is that there are a fair number of people just want to do things under their own steam and happen to enjoy the suffer that can come with hard work. They like that feeling of accomplishment, that "I" did that, not that "I and some motor assist" did that.
The only people that need to apologize are ones with poor riding etiquette and those who are not giving back to the trail system either through cash or volunteer labour no matter what type of contraption they are using.
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 4 days ago
So this thread IS about being a jerk over the perfectly legal act of riding an E-bike on trails where they are legal and so these comments form the luddites are very appro, hopefuly on the next e-bike artical the people who don't like e-bikes can just not read or comment and BTW you know that its real easy to just do 3 laps instead of 1 ?
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 4 days ago
WTF should we not comment on an article that is purporting the use of electric motor bikes, why do our opinions not count, you sure as shit don't hesitate to share yours. If you can't handle public debate, suggest you get off the interwebs.
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 4 days ago
You can have your opinion but I don't want to hear it, because when you wank up an E-bike artical with anti E bike rhetoric to the point you remove all the air from the room you wreck the artical and people who have ideas or question and valid comments just might not so in other words you interfere with the artical
just like how if I posted smack on your proclivity for old stuff no body is interested in riding any more I would wreck it, so I never post anything on 10spds or 10 yr old bikes or any of your posts
and so the idea is to play nice, stay in our own lanes so the authors be authors and write their articals
and also not tell lies about not reading or not commenting on E-bike articals
and BTW there are more old people that ever who are buying more e-bikes than ever, there are more e-bike articals than ever, so if your shoes feel wet it might be cuz you are pissing in the wind
Reply
Lynx .
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Really, that's your comeback, somebody on the interwebs might feel intimidated and not posting a question/thought, if they didn't want comments, they wouldn't have a comment section. Oh and that whole free speach thing, that only works if EVERYONE is allowed to particpate, not just you idiots who think you're the "right" ones, no one is instigating violence towards anyone else, that is, IMHO where that free speach line is drawn.
I don't give a rats ass what you think about old parts and old bikes and trying to NOT be a part of this modern throw away, consumerism driven society, I give a fvck about the planet and do what I can to do my little part to try and keep it from dying. I also love it when I have to be the one that's most involved in getting me up the hill and then back down, not some long travel, super slacked out electric MOTOR bike.
Oh and that's another thing with these electric MOTOR bikes, those batteries and how =fast they die, then how many get disposed of properly or how many get to be garbage because the manufacturer moved on in just a couple years and no longer supports the motor or electrics in the $$$ product you bought?
Reply
[user profile deleted]
2 weeks, 3 days ago
This comment has been removed.
XXX_er
2 weeks, 3 days ago
yeah thats obviously not a pict of me, so you went over the line make something up put my name on it announce you are going to keep it around to mess with me and then you get out out-assholed and decide maybe you should take it down, I didn't get upset I got even
i thot we were just having fun ?
in any case you did take it down and now you got it up again
and now you got it down again
I'm living rent free in Tashi's head
Lynx .
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Hey Man, sorry to hear, horrific accident, glad things are on the mend. Keep on building/recovering and be sure to not forget to also write a piece when you're strong enough to get back on your bike and turn the cranks yourself and how great that feels ;-)
Wasn't sure about reading this, but thought, let's give it a go. So my thoughts, I HATE electric moto bikes, PERIOD, that will never change. I think that most who have and ride them are lazy/entitled and use a lot of other things as an excuse to have/ride them that are life choices, not anything physical that makes it necessary, HOWEVER, I have NEVER had a problem with anyone using/riding one who has a legit reason/need for one, like yourself, for that I think they're great, that and commuting to get more vehicles off the roads.
To me the bike industry just found another way to sell to lazy humans because basically bike geometry etc., has been sorted since about 2018 and so sales were stagnating. I DO NOT feel that just because you're a beginner you should get one to keep up with your friends, if they truly are your friends, they will ride WITH you at your pace. I think that beginners using them can get them into serious trouble both in where/what they can cover and then the extra weight descending is a hazard not only to them, but other trail users as well. Nor do I feel that just because you've gotten older and can't keep up with younger riders that you should get one either, either accept nature and/or put in the work to improve.
Will I ever get one, only if I NEED one, not because I'm getting older and can't go as far or ride as fast as younger riders, it's either I put in the work to not let that happen or I accept those limitations, but just like when I broke my kneecap, I started back out riding a lap of my small neighbourhood, basically using my good leg and then as I healed I rode 2, 3, 4 and then from there moved to the cart roads/fire roads and started to build back my fitness and strength.
Heck my knee only just really got back to almost normal range of motion summer this year, 5 years after the accident, but that hasn't/didn't keep me from cranking out some hard rides, beating younger guys up climbs etc., because I have that BIG thing that differentiates those that accomplish from those that don't, mental fortitude that when I decide I will, I do, even if it costs me a day "in bed" recovering because I can't bend/move my leg.
Reply
Ryan
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Hey man it's 2025 and your attitude is about 10 years out of date, and even then it was a shit take.
People want to get out and ride with friends, have fun, and honestly just do their own thing. Why are you spending so much time silently judging them as lazy people, entitled, or not deserving of....riding an electric bike in the woods? Going out to the woods and riding around / having fun isn't any definition of lazy or entitled that I've ever seen. Go do your thing and stop being so judgmental and gatekeeping of this silly hobby.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Always an interesting response of “Go do your thing and stop being so judgmental and gatekeeping of this silly hobby.”
But yet you think it is completely fine to bring powered vehicles into a traditionally human-powered sport. And YOU think that’s obviously fine, but some of us don’t agree. Some of us find these to be low powered motorcycles and inherently NOT the same silly hobby. Fun? Perhaps, but same sport? Obviously not.
Take your pretend ‘openness’ somehwere else. It’s a false flag on any ebike discussion. Because as I like to point out, I will bet anything you don’t want full on motocross bikes on your local trails. And why? Becasuse it’s a different sport, and you find that level of gatekeeping to be reasonable. You don’t disagree with limits, just limits on turning one sport into a different one.
Reply
Jotegir
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Always an interesting response of “Go do your thing and stop being so judgmental and gatekeeping of this silly hobby.”
But yet you think it is completely fine to bring powered watercraft into a traditionally wind-powered sport. And YOU think that’s obviously fine, but some of us don’t agree. Some of us find these to be low powered powerboats and inherently NOT the same silly hobby. Fun? Perhaps, but same sport? Obviously not.
Take your pretend ‘openness’ somehwere else. It’s a false flag on any motorsailor discussion. Because as I like to point out, I will bet anything you don’t want full on powerboats on your local waters. And why? Becasuse it’s a different sport, and you find that level of gatekeeping to be reasonable. You don’t disagree with limits, just limits on turning one sport into a different one.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Yep, I also sailboat race. Good memory!
What actually is your point? Do you think you made a point where I'm being hypocritical?
I'm a sailor, not a power boater, so you're off track there. Seems your attempt at clever was not clever enough by half.
Reply
Morgan Heater
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Your sailboat better not have a motor. Oars or bust.
Karl Fitzpatrick
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Fuck bro. A conversation about bikes is not something to put this much energy into. Have wank and a nap.
Ryan
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Help me. I'm genuinely struggling to understand what the issue with e-bikes.
The core of my critique is attacking why someone enjoying a different (ebike) hobby a problem for you? So much that you're questioning their moral character and if they "deserve it". Can't people enjoy their hobby of choice without such judgments?
Several of my local trails are multi-use which allows dirt bikes on the trails built by mountain bikers. This is primarily due to how the funding happened and who owns the land. It's seriously not a big deal and even if it was...it's allowed so why bash them for doing what is allowed?
Reply
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Moving is a traditionally non-mechanized activity (ask your buddy Mike Vandeman). Walking upright is a traditionally four-legged pursuit. Slavery was a traditionally acceptable practice in many societies.
Reply
Jotegir
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Always an interesting response of “Go do your thing and stop being so judgmental and gatekeeping of this silly hobby.”
But yet you think it is completely fine to bring a mechanized vehicle into a traditionally two-footed pursuit. And YOU think that’s obviously fine, but some of us don’t agree. Some of us find these to be mechanical-advantage giving vehicles and inherently NOT the same silly hobby. Fun? Perhaps, but same sport? Obviously not.
Take your pretend ‘openness’ somehwere else. It’s a false flag on any hiking discussion. Because as I like to point out, I will bet anything you don’t want full on vehicles on your local trails. And why? Becasuse it’s a different sport, and you find that level of gatekeeping to be reasonable. You don’t disagree with limits, just limits on turning one sport into a different one.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Again not clever enough by half.
You fail to understand or accept the basic premise; some of us like bicycles. Some of us think bicycles have motors and aren’t motorcycles. Some of us are deluded.
You do the math. You seem to think that the words I used can be applied to ANY conversation regarding sport of recreation, but you fail to see the basic premise of the discussion. Discussing mountain biking and hiking together IS reasonable. But bringing in mountain biking as exactly equal to hiking is obviously not true. There is your problem.
Edit to respond to Cam.
Is the suggested insult saying some are deluded? That’s a statment about beliefs, not about your inherent goodness. No insult intended, but if you calim these are just bicycles then it’s a valid point of contention.
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 2 days ago
The only actual motivations I can see for you here, aside from airing your grievances, are virtue signalling and flexing. You aren't changing any minds or presenting arguments that might have someone reconsider giving eMTBs a try. I'd argue you are having the opposite impact. You've given us your spiel countless times with no impact and yet you continue so it's obvious you are getting something out of it.
The flexing and signalling have now been thoroughly received. You think your way is the best way and that those of us who think otherwise are inferior to you.
Maybe you will eventually burnish your reputation enough that you'll be satisfied.
I remain hopeful.
Also, could we leave the insults out of this discussion please Barry? It would be nice to not lower the bar further. (referring to your "not clever enough by half" statement.
Jotegir
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Reply
Kerry Williams
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Need is such a funny word. We are all here because we enjoy a sport that is completely unneccessary in the grand scheme of the world turning. All the e-bike people that I've conversed with while on my non-e-bike, have been super positive, and their attitude is what we could all do with more of in our lives.
Reply
Samuel McMain
2 weeks, 4 days ago
A question, what do you define as “need?” I ask as I don’t technically need an ebike to ride (my back injury lets me ride about an hour before the pain gets to to be too much) but with an ebike the strain from climbing is less and I can ride a couple hours.
To boot, I don’t need to ride a mountain bike, a road bike would be much easier on my body. Or better yet walking. I want to ride bikes and enjoy the sport, is that not justified as a need?
Also, my speed on an ebike is the same as my CAT1 racer friend on his regular bike. Is the speed of ebikes the problem or just that it has a motor? What about me riding my regular mtb on a gravel ride with my friends on gravel bikes and going faster than them on single track? Is mechanical advantage the problem or specially power assist to the drivetrain?
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Jeremy,
Glad you are recovering from that accident. Sounds gnarly.
However, as someone that has recently recovered from massive abdominal surgeries (2 in 2 years) to have my colon removed (Crohn’s disease) I have been through the recovery program. And let me tell you that cutting all the way through your main adbominal muscles is a lot to come back from. Especially twice.
Then I broke my shoulder this summer riding bike park, ugh.
But . . .
The inherent lie that a powered machine is needed is ridiculous. The real answer is what humanity has done for all time until very recently. We come back, little by little and eventually with work get back to where we were. Myself I have spent the last two years (since the final surgery) doing everything to get back to feeling good on the bike. And while I can appreciate your journey, the ebike was a crutch. You could have done the same effort on mild trails, the same effort as on the ebike. But as always with these stories you were greedy, you didn’t want to put in the real work but wanted a cheat code to not have to put in the same time. And unfortunately the industry has convinced far too many people that it’s just an evolution of riding bikes. And it simply isn’t.
Be real, ride at your limits, and if those are too low than accept that, OR change your limits with the work required to make that happen. But bicycles do not = powered machines. That’s a different sport and one I am not interested in.
I did read the article for the human story, but the push that ebikes = good, feels like you’ve drank the Kool-Aid.
Reply
Dave Smith
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Man. If you knew who you were accusing of being "greedy" and not wanting to put the real work in you might feel some shame about writing that crap.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
I read the article. I responded from a place of having to work incredibly hard to get back to where I was and want to be.
I have the credence on a topic like this to have my opinions and not feel guilty about it. I've done the work, I can say it like it is.
Greedy is being in recovery mode yet wanting the 3'000ft day, greedy is thinking you deserve to go as hard as you used to. Greed, nothing more, nothing less.
Reply
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Wait… you were riding in a bike park? With a lift to get you to the top?
That sounds quite motorized to me. It seems like you used a “powered machine” to get you to the top so you could get more laps. I’ve heard that is greedy .
And regarding your criticism of Jeremy, you know not of what you speak. If you knew, you would be ashamed. Or you should be. I guess you wouldn’t be though.
Reply
XXX_er
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Karma is a bitch eh ?!
Reply
JerVenture
2 weeks, 3 days ago
I should have known better than to read the comments. Don't worry I don't let trolls who are paddle board instructors like Barry get to me.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Ah, now this is the stuff I am here for!
That is a very, very, funny and clever dig if you know anything about the kayaking world and instruction. I tip my hat to you sir!
BarryW
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Come on Cam, that’s patently ridiculous. You can surely understand that a lift is different than a snowmobile, or a motorcycle. Let’s not play dumb for false points to be made, no matter how you think you got in a dig. You seem to have missed the point.
As to the responses to my posts, sure, I am having a serious discussion and don’t really care about stepping on the lillies and upsetting someone. But to be fair, the author of a well written article discusses his mixed feelings about ebikes. He even responded to one of my posts with that attitude. And this is an OPINION piece that is strongly pro-ebike. You choose to have comments, well then this is what you’ll get. Besides, to advertisers this probably creates better metrics than any mild discussion about rebound tuning. Engagament right?
And let’s be real, I called someone (on the internet lest we forget) ‘greedy’. Not saying they are inherently bad, just greedy in this case. And then I backed up my right to that opinion with my experience of living through some incredibly tough physical experiences that mean I am talking from a place of experience, NOT ignorant dismissal. That is where the difference lies. You Cam seem to resort to insults like this:
“I mostly feel sorry for him. Living with that much bitterness and anger must be very hard indeed. ”
And here I am discussing motivations based on experience. I have never personally insulted you Cam, yet each time this comes up you find some way to say I am a miserable person. I sit here smiling and happy while discussing this, no anger here. I do have stron opinions, but I ride usually twice a week at least, I ride WITH friends rather than away from them. I encourage others and am a friendly and kind trail user that always checkes to see if someone needs assistance, and will give it with joy in my heart. Yet you claim to see my internal motivations. Silly that.
Reply
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 2 days ago
That was not an insult Barry, it was an observation and it was sincere. You do seem angry and bitter. I am not the only one who has noticed this or mentioned it by a long shot. I'm glad to hear you aren't like that in other spheres. Telling someone they aren't clever enough by half is actually insulting however.
If you feel there is no place for motors in mountain biking, you shouldn't ride a chairlift. If you do, it's hypocritical cherry picking and it further erodes your strange motivation for saying the same thing over and over again while hoping for a different result. Everything you've said about your personal vision of mountain biking suggests there should be no need to ride a lift.
I have received a number of messages, phone calls and emails suggesting we ban you because of the tone you (mostly, but not entirely you) have injected into this otherwise friendly and pleasant corner of the internet. Obviously we wouldn't do that for presenting a different opinion but it's interesting that this is the first time in years there has been any uproar about our comments section. If seeking attention and virtue signalling are motivations for you, consider this a success.
JerVenture
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Definitely didn't need one. Still feel guilty riding it and put my hand over the light when I encounter other riders if that makes you feel better. I did ride my hardtail around the property a bit this summer but that pedal assist did help me get out there with my kids and friends. Did I need it? No, but I do think it saved by mind so maybe I did.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
That's a straight cop out. Mentally 'needed' a motorcycle? Come on.
You made a choice to skip the steps, and were greedy. You could have pedalled with your kids and taught them to ride WITH people and made our sport more inclusive.
Instead you chose to continue the bad-friend narrative of 'we can't ride unless you're at MY level' and that sucks. This is a huge part of why women and new riders feels unwelcome in the MTB world.
When I ride with anyone I ride WITH them. Because I'm a decent person and I care about them. Try it, it'll even give you good mental health feels.
In my recovery even standing up straight was a challenge, but every single day I did more and more steps until it was a mile, then two, then finally back to flat, sidewalk pedaling until I got back to now. It's a challenge for sure, and I do not discount that. But let's change our sport for the better by doing the hard work and being good riding companions rather than being greedy about how much fun WE get to have.
Reply
Graham Driedger
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Greedy? Barry, WTF? Your binary defintions of bicycles are now talking absolute shit on someone you know nothing about other than the story they shared? I'm drawing a picture in my head about who you are based on your toxic comments in this article alone, but surely you have more depth and substance than that. Right? You've fallen so hard onto the sword that your heart is long gone and only spewing shit from your entrails.
Reply
Jotegir
2 weeks, 4 days ago
"You've fallen so hard onto the sword that your heart is long gone and only spewing shit from your entrails."
This is a stone-cold savage dig at a guy without a colon. Brutal. Deserved? Maybe. I try not to judge.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Okay, that made this gutless asshole laugh!!!!
Graham Driedger
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Guess it worked out like that inadvertently. Definitely not trying to be an ableist here.
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Did you have anything to add Graham or just to complain at me?
This is an opinion piece trying to make ebikes seem like a good thing, well some of us can be calmly against that ideology. And I come from a place of both injury recovery and other. Are you caliming I don’t get an opinion on matters such as these? Heck, even Jeremy admitted he feels guilty about riding a motorcycle.
Opinion pieces deserve opinions put back at them. Thank you for yours!
And, you do understand that binary when talking about human powered vs. motorized is accurate right? I like bikes on my local trails, motorcycles not at all.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 4 days ago
Graham,
Any thoughts about this?:
“Instead you chose to continue the bad-friend narrative of 'we can't ride unless you're at MY level' and that sucks. This is a huge part of why women and new riders feels unwelcome in the MTB world.
When I ride with anyone I ride WITH them. Because I'm a decent person and I care about them. Try it, it'll even give you good mental health feels. ”
Reply
Dave Tolnai
2 weeks, 4 days ago
This is unhinged.
First, this isn't about you. This is about a guy who nearly lost his leg talking about a tool that:
A) Helped him mentally overcome his injury.
B) Allowed him to get back to the sport that he loves.
C) Got him mobile and likely aided in his recovery journey.
And your response is that he should have "worked harder"? You think he should have slowly pedaled around the block for the next two years until he could work himself back up to climbing on a regular mountain bike? If he can ever get back to climbing on a regular mountain bike? You think that because you followed a certain recovery plan for a totally different injury that somebody else is somehow less than because they did it differently?
And the "good friend narrative"? WTF. This is crazy. I ski and bike with people of different skill levels all the time and it's way, way, way more enjoyable when the playing field can be leveled. But you think that the people who don't just suck it up and and relish in slowing down are bad friends? Holy shit. This is bonkers.
Reply
Kos
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Dave, figure out what 1 NSMB reader is worth to you guys and tell me where to send the check, after the ban is implemented.
Reply
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 3 days ago
We would only ban someone for contravening our terms of use, which Barry, as annoying as he is, has not done.
I mostly feel sorry for him. Living with that much bitterness and anger must be very hard indeed.
It’s an unusual hill to die on though, considering everything happening in the world right now. “Climate change? Racism? Poverty? Wealth gap? Those are NBD. I’M GOING AFTER BIKES THAT ARE BOOSTED BY ELECTRICITY!”
That makes me sad as well. Such a waste of energy. At the same time, he’s welcome to his opinion, as annoying and repetitive as it is.
flatch
2 weeks, 3 days ago
I’ll chip in.
Jotegir
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Woah, Cam, there's terms of use for this site? Weird. Where are they? I don't see anything in the links below. Did I shrink-wrap myself upon sign up, and like everybody else, forgot? Well now I wanna know about what I'd actually have to do to get on the shitlist.
[user profile deleted]
2 weeks, 3 days ago
This comment has been removed.
BarryW
2 weeks, 3 days ago
“And the "good friend narrative"? WTF. This is crazy. I ski and bike with people of different skill levels all the time and it's way, way, way more enjoyable when the playing field can be leveled. But you think that the people who don't just suck it up and and relish in slowing down are bad friends? Holy shit. This is bonkers.”
Yes, I do believe that. Not that you cannot have a day with high level friends and rip down the mountain, but to make that the total end goal makes you sound like a drug addict who cares more for his fix than for the time spent with other people.
And ‘unhinged’? Come one, get a grip! This is an opinion piece that is pro-ebike. It calls for opinionated discussion. And I have not personally insulted anyone here.
as to your point A), that is silly on it’s face. Is it actually your claim that just 10-15 years ago he must have been mentally ill, physically unable to recover because he didn’t have an ebike? In those terms doesn’t that sound a little silly? For me whenever the claim is that modern entertainment is the cure for being unhappy I push back strongly becasue that’s not real happy, that’s just distraction. Mental health is real, and takes real work and I will never dismiss that. But motors are the solution? Get out of here! lol.
Reply
flatch
2 weeks, 2 days ago
You know Barry, you should go to your profile and read your own comments alone. You come across as angry and extremely bitter. Your tone is argumentative and extremely condescending. You seem to be that fella who isn’t happy and won’t leave the room until he’s rattled everyone’s cage. Kind of a look at me I want attention kind of thing. You’ve done nothing but completely shit all over someone’s STORY ABOUT A LIFE EXPERIENCE that was traumatic and life altering. This was not an opinion piece. You speak of your own traumatic health issues. How would you feel about someone shitting all over your story. All over e-bikes, fuck me how childish. In short you come off as a whiny little bitch. Now that’s an opinion.
Dave Tolnai
1 week, 3 days ago
I didn't reply to your comment because I was interested in a conversation. I replied to your comment because you were saying things that I didn't think should stand without being challenged. Your leap from me saying it "helped him to mentally overcome his injury" to you saying "Is it actually your claim that just 10-15 years ago he must have been mentally ill, physically unable to recover" is astounding.
You don't come here in good faith, Barry. You seldom add anything substantive to a conversation. You don't seem interested in learning anything, or even teaching anything. I'm at a loss for why you're here or what you're trying to accomplish.
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Congratulations Barry!
This is identical to the argument Mike Vandeman makes about mountain bikes. He says we are greedy for wanting wheels to go faster when our legs propel us just fine. For him, having gears and wheels and tires on natural land is an abomination and should never be allowed. Like you, he mentions how greedy mountains bikers are for wanting more than our legs can provide.
You two should have lunch. I think you’d get along. Don’t bring your bike though. He may cut you with his saw as you ride by.
Mike Vandeman Arrested.
Reply
BarryW
2 weeks, 3 days ago
Again with the personal insults Cam. I am disccusing topics. You aren’t a bad person for loving ebikes and distorting a sport I love. I might disagree, but it doesn’t make you evil.
Not to mention it makes your opinions less important if you cannot deliver them with reasoned responses.
Reply
Cam McRae
2 weeks, 2 days ago
I haven't insulted you that I know of Barry. This was another observation. You say the same things about eMTBs that Vandeman says about mountain bikes. That's just the truth.
lev3000
2 weeks, 1 day ago
Has Barry W got a job?
leon-forfar
1 week, 3 days ago
Lol, imagine thinking two abdominal surgeries over two years are anything close to as intense as 8+ leg rebuild surgeries in the same time frame, especially in regards to pedaling.
"In my recovery even standing up straight was a challenge"
Bruh, Jeremy couldn't stand AT ALL for over a year. All surgery recoveries are hard mentally and physically, but when the two things that literally spin your cranks are damaged to the point of almost being removed altogether, it takes a bit more work and time to get back on a bike.
My wife had abdominal surgery to remove an organ, and she was back riding about 2 months later. Probably because her legs were still 100% healthy... Not saying it's the same as your situation, but it certainly was less recovery and impact on day to day life than having your legs shattered.
Mental health is one of the most important parts of recovery. If an E-bike allows someone to get out into the woods where they otherwise wouldn't be able to for months still, then power (pun intended) to them. If humans never invented tools to make life easier, we would be stuck in the stone age still. Being Anti E bike but being pro bike is almost like saying you shouldn't drive a car ever. Because you can just ride a bike to wherever you're going you lazy bastard! Even more LOLs to thinking a chair lift is fine, but E bikes aren't. Those E-bikers are looking down (or up rather) at those lazy chair lift riding slobs for not earning their turns in the same way you look down on E-bikers for not riding a regular mountain bike.
Reply
jhtopilko
2 weeks, 4 days ago
on the money
Reply
Please log in to leave a comment.