REVIEW
A Saddle Story: BikeYoke Sagma vs. Sagma Lite
My Saddle Challenge
I used to get really into testing new saddles. I knew plenty of folks who hadn't found the right perch, so it felt like doing a service to highlight the less common options on the market. After every review of SQLab's Active saddle system I'd receive a few messages from folks whose entire riding experience had changed from pain to to joy, and the dopamine rush was real.
With each review finished, I'd go back to my personal favourites, the relatively stub-nosed duo of saddles from WTB: the Deva and the Koda.
In the spring of '21, a decidedly Koda-shaped saddle arrived with way too many bolts, a suspension system that worked very differently from SQlab's, and the audacity to creak on my first ride.
From the incredibly durable covering to the supportive foam and stiff base, the Sagma and Sagma Lite appear the same from the top down.
The significant cost reduction for riders choosing the Sagma Lite comes from the traditional rail setup, versus the replaceable rails and suspension on the Sagma.
I now have a few suspended BikeYoke Sagmas, and the idea of taking them off my bikes to review anything else is deflating. I'm not saying they're for everyone. Not all folks like the obvious side-to-side rock of the suspension system and the 140 EUR (200 CAD | 150 USD) price of entry is admittedly quite high.
Many riders are looking for a longer perch, I have a half dozen recommendations depending on price and past saddle fitment issues. For riders looking for a similar shape for fewer bills, the WTB Koda starts at 50 USD and the nice chromoly-railed model is under a C-note.
Hit our review from July '21 for more details on the Sagma suspension system. I'm in awe of how fresh this saddle still looks given the hours on it.
Its metal rails doesn't save may grams for the Sagma Lite. I don't get with carbon rails, but there are versions of both systems for the gram-counters.
For my hardtail, my commuter, or my dual-suspension bike, the Sagma works so well, and has proven so durable, that I think it's worth every penny. The saddle itself is very supportive with just the right amount of padding, and the suspension system adds a degree of flotation, allowing the saddle to move with me as I pedal. No other perch comes close and I'm not seeking any substitution. Indeed, I'd go as far as to say it's the only component on my bikes that's truly settled, other than maybe the Kick Ass Cogs on my single-speed.
The most exciting thing about reviewing a Sagma Lite is that it's compatible with the Aenomaly SwitchGrade, where the Sagma's oval rails are not.
I've been sliding my gritty butt over this platform in all weather, but based on my Sagma experiences I'm not surprised that it still looks fresh.
Sagma Vs. Sagma Lite
Enter the Sagma Lite. In the simplest terms it's a Sagma saddle without the suspension system for a bunch less money. It rings up at 90 EUR (130 CAD | 100 USD) which pops it right into line with the mid-level WTB Koda I mentioned earlier.
I'm intimately familiar with the 145mm Koda and in our Sagma review I noted that the size and shape is very similar with the 142mm BikeYoke. Where the Sagma wins the saddle showdown with a combination of suspension and support, the Sagma Lite is a much stiffer riding pedaling platform. Notably, it does not move with the rider motion like the suspended BikeYoke or an SQlab Active saddle..
I know my love of purple has become a bit of a schtick, but if you can get your saddle in black or one of five colours for the same price, why not choose to be colourful?!
Sagma and Sagma-Carbon suspension saddles are available in purple, lime, pink, blue, orange, and black. The Sagma Lite and Sagma Lite-Carbon come in black only.
Writing about saddles, I always come back to that classic motto 'test ride, then decide' but in recognizing that saddle libraries and demo opportunities are few and far between I'll say in bold, if you do get to try one, do not fall in love with a Sagma saddle and then purchase the Sagma Lite thinking it will be the same saddle for less. The difference in how they ride is even apparent on a stationary trainer or out in the parking lot.
The Lite version's lack of 'sway' saves you an insignificant five grams and a potentially significant 70 CAD. Or it will cost you an additional 130 CAD if you buy a Sagma Lite and then decide the 200 CAD Sagma is a better option for you.
The WTB Koda was my favourite perch prior to riding the BikeYoke Sagma. The size and shape is very similar, comparing a 142 Sagma to a 145 Koda.
Where the suspension system makes the Sagma my most comfortable pedaling platform, the Sagma Lite is significantly stiffer riding. Not uncomfortable by any means, but certainly less comfortable.
Given the choice between the Sagma Lite and my WTB Koda, the Koda is a more forgiving saddle over long miles. That's comparing hardtail to hardtail, or sag wagon to sag wagon.
Harsh
When BikeYoke released the Sagma Lite I was of two minds. The quality of manufacturing and materials of the Sagma are as good as any saddle I've ridden, so the idea of that same fit in a simpler and less expensive package is appealing. But, also, the controlled way the Sagma damps movement is a significant factor in what I love about the saddle.
The BikeYoke Sagma is worth every penny of the +70 CAD purchase price over the Sagma Lite. And, the saddles are so durable, I expect to be able to amortize that difference down significantly over years of ownership.
For 130 CAD, the Sagma Lite is a top quality saddle that folks preferring a firmer ride, especially if they're sporting a deluxe-diaper, will love.
The BikeYoke Sagma is worth every penny of the $70 premium over the Sagma Lite.
Where does that leave the Sagma Lite? I'm in no hurry to remove it from my full suspension bike, the size and shape work ideally for me; however, if I was buying a new saddle at the same price I'd invest in a WTB Koda instead. It's just more forgiving without sacrificing the level of support I prefer. I will note here that I never wear a chamois and those sporting a deluxe-diaper may have a more favourable take on the Lite version.
I know the BikeYoke Sagma is a spendy saddle, and requires just over 50% more treasure compared to the Sagma Lite. Having ridden both of them, I'd trim my bicycle budget anywhere else on my rig, especially my hardtail, to jump from the 130 CAD Sagma Lite to the 200 CAD Sagma.
And when it comes to my Sagma saddles, if I never have an opportunity to pilot a different perch again, I'll be okay with it.
Comments
Eric Schuler
1 year, 7 months ago
I thin the one improvement of the Sagma would be covering the plastic brim at the base with some cushion. Caused me some serious bruising this summer especially when getting stuck on the tip in a techy section. Last month I have it moved the Sagma to my (way to stiff) Nicolai Gravel sled for some winter riding. It’s making quite the change and absorbs a ton of vibration there so can definitely recommend if you’re looking to get something more comfy without going down the heavy and expensive route of a bouncy seat post.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Are you just thinking about some extra padding and material around the nose? I think the saddle-in-base construction (exposed base) is part of what makes the saddle so durable.
Was it a tech climb where you had contact? Or was that just the main event but you had other bruising? Not wearing a chamois I’m usually quite aware of edgy bits on saddles.
I run my saddle flat - one of the reasons I love stub-nosed saddles maybe? - but I lower my dropper a bit to a lot on really tech climbs which may be why I don’t notice the nose being aggressive.
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Would love to see a photo of your Groad Nicolai!
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Eric Schuler
1 year, 7 months ago
You are right it might help durability (although I had many chrashes with my Ergon SM Pro and the only cut is had is on the seat but after a rock garden OTB). It’s actually a techy Alpine walking trail descend where the bike came after me. It just left a very pronounced imprint of the shape of the saddle on my thigh so a bit more padding around the nose wouldn’t hurt. Maybe I’ll DIY with some mastic tape and see.
On techy uphills I actually love the shorter saddle I realised as it leaves more room to manoeuvre yet on the downs I was surprised how much steering I did with the legs before. Maybe time to try a
Here’s a photo of the Groad an ever evolving Buy&Sell pandemic project. The only thing new on it was the Frame and Bell and one of the shifters :D
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
That’s a great looking piece of industrial-art on wheels - like all Nicolai bikes.
Looking at the chain stays and seat stays though, how stiff is it?!?!
Interesting idea with the mastic tape. Or maybe a bit of Sugru?
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Eric Schuler
1 year, 6 months ago
Indeed the stays are very similar to the ones on my G1. Given there is no EXT to be found anywhere it’s definitely very stiff :D. Great if you want all the steering input when hauling lots of stuff whilst bikepacking but not so great for the back.
Tried Mastic tape but that was a silly idea as it’s way too sticky. Will look if I can second-life some bartape next. The round shape doesn’t help sticking stuff to it really…
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Oily76
1 year, 6 months ago
Yeah, seems as if the foam might be robust enough to extend a few mm past the edge of the base without it getting too mauled in a crash.
I guess they'd probably do it if they could, though. Less materials (assuming they reduced the base rather than increase the body) so less weight and cost!
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Kos
1 year, 7 months ago
Stellar review!
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Thank you,
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DanL
1 year, 7 months ago
I love your use of using hoarded treasure in a purchase.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Cheers. When I'm buying something for myself I certainly visualize taking the physical lucre and handing it over. It's too easy sometimes with a card to forget that though the money may not be 'real' the time that went into it certainly was.
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Moritz Haager
1 year, 7 months ago
I think I have spent more on saddles over the years than any other bike accessory trying to find that right fit. I wish there was a more scientific method to saddle fit. Sit bone measurement is important but far from comprehensive. It really does come down to trial and error which can get expensive quickly. Your idea of a saddle library is a good one. My experience is that the best place to test saddle fit is on stationary trainer as you remain in the same position for a long time. If I owned a bike shop I'd have bike trainers set up so that a customer could try 2 or 3 different saddles on their bike before buying.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Trainers are a great way to introduce someone to a saddle. Especially if you mount up their own bike and especially for commuting or road riding.
There are some saddles that I've found comfortable in a neutral pedaling position that have choked me on long seated climbs or beaten my legs standing on long descents so I'd like to have the physical option to ride a saddle offroad that comes with the library concept.
I'm a bit starved for time but I've been thinking about doing a proof-of-concept article. I know it's an investment to manage such a system well, but I think shops would sell more $200+ saddles if folks could be confident they would be experience-changing.
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My experience with the Made-In-German SQLab Ergolux 60X saddle was a good reminder that sit bone measurements are a quick, fairly successful, and not foolproof way to ball park a saddle size, but no substitute for riding and also no guarantee that any size of a given saddle works for a certain rider.
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Martin
1 year, 7 months ago
Time is the thing I have the least currently, but I'd love to try replacing the cover on that saddle. The foam seems still really good and the plastics/rails are perfectly fine too (and it's the Ti version!). It's so easy to buy another one, why not go the complicated route ? : )
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
I've seen some neat re-covered saddles. Some of the colour and material options!!! I haven't tackled it myself but I have a saddle put aside for the day.
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Morgan Heater
1 year, 7 months ago
I'd try one if they shrank the nose by an additional inch or two.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
You'd like it 25-50mm shorter yet? What saddle are you running on your mountain bike?
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Morgan Heater
1 year, 7 months ago
Specialized power saddle. The nose is still too long. :-)
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Wow, even with the dropped nose? Do you run the saddle flat or tilted nose-down? Do you have a significant saddle to bar drop?
I know of some folks commuting on nose-less saddles but this is the first I've heard of a mountain biker who'd prefer such a shape. Very interesting.
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Ryan
1 year, 7 months ago
Might be a local thing but the Power saddles are really common on mountain bikes around here. I've got a mimic something or another on my MTB and it's pretty great.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
I know folks who ride the Power and love it. I'm surprised that riders want a shorter nose than that, not that folks are riding it.
Specialized has a great saddle program.
Andrew Major
1 year, 6 months ago
This comment has been removed.
Morgan Heater
1 year, 7 months ago
Pretty flat, and my bars are just lightly below the seat. I've just never understood the desire to slide your taint forward onto a narrow beam. I'd rather just stand up briefly if it seems necessary. Otherwise, my butt stays on the butt part. The smaller the seat is, the more it's out of the way on the descent.
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Eric Schuler
1 year, 6 months ago
Interesting I tried the Power on the MTB and was surprised to miss the nose for steering. Got used to it pretty quickly (the nose missing - my bum didn’t) but with long droppers I don’t really find I need to get it more out of the way and l rather have more leg steering
Andrew Major
1 year, 6 months ago
@Eric on top of just simple personal preference, I'd say most the folks I know running the Power are combining it with 200mm+ (210, 220, 240! Oh, my) dropper posts so the saddle is very out of the way. Generally I'm running a dropper post around 170mm, or lowering dropper posts to 170mm, as I find that's where I interface best with the saddle.
Vik Banerjee
1 year, 7 months ago
Looks intriguing. I'm pretty happy with my current WTB/Ergon mountain saddles, but it's good to have some ideas of what else would be worth trying. Thanks for the review.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
Cheers Vik. I didn't need to look beyond the WTB Koda (and Deva before that) until I tried the Sagma. The suspension system, for it's added complexity, is awesome. It's made a big difference for long-day pedaling comfort not so much in my sit-area, which is fine, but in my back and legs, which I attribute to the 'sway.'
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skeptatstic
6 months ago
Alright, I'm definitely gonna take the plunge and grab a Sagma. I've wasted so much money on saddles over the years that having an unused Koda (or Sagma, if somehow I decide the Koda wins) in the parts bucket won't hurt much. I'm too curious not to know! I sure with the shop I bought my new bike at had the Sagma in stock. I'd just have them swap the stock Volt for the Sagma and save a few bucks. As it stands, I'll get a wider version of the Koda to add to the medium, and then buy a Sagma to complete my oddly similar collection lol.
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GB
1 year, 7 months ago
Can't really tell from the pictures. Do you set up saddle flat? Nose up or nose down ?
For my skinny ass to feel comfortable my latest saddle choice is flat . On my commuter bike the saddle has a bit more ramp at the back so it sits slightly nose down .
For me nose slightly down works best for long trips on the saddle.
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
On my rigid bike and most full-suspension bikes my saddle is usually flat(tish). I used to start with a level between the nose and tail and then adjust from there, but now I just eyeball it.
With a hardtail, I'll have the saddle about level with sag on neutral ground, so static the nose is up a bit.
I've been playing around with this a lot lately because of trying to find the best use cases for the Aenomaly SwitchGrade. My saddle position is highly influenced by the relatively high handlebar height I run (bar and saddle close to level with the saddle up at climbing height) and I think, for local riding, a dropped nose will often (but not always) be accompanied by a saddle to bar drop of at least a couple of centimeters.
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sacki
1 year, 7 months ago
For me, nose slightly down also works well.
We tried to already take this into consideration when designing the SAGMA saddles.
On our website you will find some basic drawing of the saddles, so you can get a rough idea abou their shape before comitting to buying one. Example here:
https://www.bikeyoke.de/media/products/bikeyoke_dimensions_sagma_142_new.pdf
We, at BikeYoke, are all mostly riding Trail/Enduro bikes with only little to no saddle to bar drop.
With this more comfortable/upright rider position, all SAGMA saddles will already give you this slightly nose-down orientation with the rails being set horizontal.
That does not mean this orientation is right for everyone, but it works quite well for all of us at BY and that's why we designed the rails to be horizontal for the position that was averagely preferred after our testing. In our view, setting the rails horizontal is a good starting point for small saddle to bar drop bike setups.
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Martin
1 year, 7 months ago
The timing is great for this article. I am a WTB Deva/Devo/Koda user and I have not had the idea to try other saddles before reading your reviews. I was curious about SQ Lab saddles, and now this new BikeYoke.
One thing I'm wondering : I just bought a WTB Koda (like the one in your first picture, with the little tiny dimples on the top material) and the kelvar-ish material in the back) and I was wondering if you noticed the kevlar material/stitching/junction using up your shorts more than a "single material" saddle cover ?
I thought that if it uses up my shorts more than (let's say a BikeYoke or Ergon saddle), it might be a good investment to get the more expensive single-material top cover saddle in the long term.
I'm probably thinking too far ahead though! Cheers!
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
If you love the Koda then I'd be very surprised if you don't love the Sagma (suspended). If you like the Devo then the Sagma Lite may work very well for you, actually. I always went for the more padded Deva.
I haven't ever noticed more wear on clothing. I do tend to wear out all my cycling bottoms in the seat but I attribute that to riding in the nastiest conditions through winter. The Kevlar corners are also where my Koda saddles eventually ghost.
That said, it's amazing how fresh the first BikeYoke Sagma I reviewed looks after as much riding as it has seen. I've taken apart the rails a few times to clean and re-Loctite everything but it's been well worth any extra effort.
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Martin
1 year, 7 months ago
I've been using a bought-used-for-10$ Devo on my commuter and old hardtail for like 12-13 years and then switched to the Deva for more padding. The shape suits me really well so even with the thinner padding, the Devo was still really comfy and fit well. I also had a Deva with the small glossy triangles-over-matte-leather design and found it a bit too slippery for my fat bike in the winter. The newer version of the Deva is perfect, so I just got a Koda with the same newest design and I think I prefer its shape over the Deva.
That said, the Sagma Lite seems to have a very similar shape to the Koda, so I'll add it to my potential list to try!
On another note, I thought about trying to replace the cover on my old worn-out Devo (it's almost white now) and saw some Youtube videos that makes it look feasible. I just need to find a source for a good cover material. By any chance, would you know of any place where to get a quality material ?
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
I ride a Deva for years before the Koda came out and it felt like an evolution for me. Sagma is a very similar shape/fit with degrees of extra comfort, especially pedaling with body English.
Any place that recovers upholstery can sell you leather or vinyl off-cuttings. I’ve seen various levels of results from recovery jobs, but if your foam is in good shape definitely go for it and share some photos!
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John Keiffer
1 year, 7 months ago
Too bad it won't work with the Eriksen ti seatpost on my gravel bike. I could probably use one on my hardtail though...
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Andrew Major
1 year, 7 months ago
The Sagma Lite should work with your Eriksen (round rails) but you would need a custom head unit to fit the oval rails of the suspended Sagma.
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Oily76
1 year, 6 months ago
I've been riding a Sagma on my FS MTB for about a month now, not done as many miles as I'd have liked to but I'm never that active in winter.
In the 3-4 rides I've had with it I've been extremely impressed. Very firm when you get on but disappears once you're up and going. Had my first ride of 4+ hours in months and my backside had no complaints at all.
The only problem for me is the rail size/shape. Originally bought the saddle for a gravel bike I'm expecting in a few weeks, but found it won't fit the (additionally purchased!) carbon rail clamp, as that's designed for 7x9mm not 7x10mm. I'm wondering whether I can get that machined out, as I expect the compliance will be far more valuable on the graveller than a full bouncer. That would mean buying another Sagma though, as I won't be taking it off my MTB now!
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