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FIRST IMPRESSIONS

2023 We Are One Arrival 152

Words Andrew Major
Photos Andrew Major (Unless Noted)
Date Sep 15, 2022
Reading time

Seductive Stories

The other day I was visiting my friend Mark, a prolific volunteer trail builder, at his automotive repair shop in Burnaby. Parked in front was the sweetest classic Alfa Romeo I could imagine. I'm not a car person in the least, and generally my reaction to anything with four wheels is "meh" but this little red fighter plane blazed itself onto my consciousness. "Mark, this Alfa Romeo is gorgeous. Is it yours?" He laughed and replied in the negative, it belongs to a customer. He has longed to own one like it for years though.

The car has been tearing up corners in the back of my brain since. It is plated as a daily driver and the owner uses it a lot, but it flaunts a collector-level trim and finish. It's truly functional art, not just a sometimes showpiece. It's a very rare case, for me, where it doesn't matter if the vehicle isn't practical for my lifestyle or even close to being in my budget. As someone who loves learning the tales behind objects, old or new, that A.L.F.A. leaves me yearning to know more. It's more than just a bold little lion of a car, it's an artifact of supreme interest. I should have taken a photo.

I'm a sucker for a seductive product story and that's where this We Are One Arrival 152 slots into the narrative. Like the Alfa Romeo, its silhouette beautifully balances being unmistakable and subtle at the same time. Its shape is eye catching, pleasant, and purposeful and the first words it whispers are "I am what I am."

Similarly, you can love or dislike the look of this bike and I'm certain neither the machine nor its creators care. This is the form that was already buried in the carbon before they made the mould, or however it is that sculptors explain the form that they free from the stone. For example, I could jump right in here and say that the Arrival bikes are deserving of bright, bold, and beautiful paint tones much more in our faces than "Avocado and Toast" and my opinion wouldn't matter five cents to anyone.

152 We Are One Arrival NSMB Andrew Major (2)

We Are One's new Convergence rim model.

152 We Are One Arrival NSMB Andrew Major (3)

Unique frame, unique finish, unique folks.

152 We Are One Arrival NSMB Andrew Major (4)

I love the lines. I wonder how long it will be before boutique bikes ditch the shifter cable routing ports.

Okay, okay, so the colours are part of the bikes' stories, since "these earthy tones match those of our hometown Kamloops, B.C.'s landscape, where they are entirely manufactured and assembled" but you know another colourway that would fit the 'loops landscape? Baneberry Blood Red. I dig the Cerakote to carbon-weave fade finish; I just think a bold bicycle needs a bold finish and this arrival is painted like a transport truck instead of a rocket ship. A Corvette Yellow to carbon-weave fade on the other hand, that's a finish worthy of this mountain bicycle.

This is always an issue with the highest-end machines. The more boujee the bottom line, the more seductive the story, the more I think the pedigree should be reflected in the level of customization in colour and spec.

The good news is twofold. First, We Are One now sells the Arrival as a frame only, and hopefully as with the completes, the spec. will be updated to ditch the Float X2 shock in favour of the RockShox Super Deluxe Ultimate.

Also, the build kit of this SP1 level Arrival 152 makes a strong argument for its eye-watering, 11.5K CAD price tag. For that money you pick up a Made In Canada carbon fiber frame and rims and handlebar. The We Are One Convergence rims are laced to premium Industry Nine Hydra hubs that are made in Asheville, North Carolina. Shifting is handled by an X01 Eagle AXS drivetrain with an X01 cassette and chain. Yes, really, they didn't downgrade the chain and cassette. Perhaps most impressive of the whole spec though is the Cane Creek 110 headset. It's actually shocking that the folks at We Are One didn't spec a Cane Creek 40-level headset and pocket the difference.

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Unique bike; unique space. I took these photos at Whey-Ah-Whichen (Cates Park) which in the local first nation's language (Hun’qumyi’num) means “facing both directions” and “facing the wind.” It's a beautiful park and also a place of significant cultural importance as it was a village site for time immemorial. I'm very privileged to spend a fair bit of time here and I want to acknowledge that I recognize it is the unceded traditional territory of the səlilwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) nation.

When you consider that We Are One sells a frame and shock for 5,500 CAD, the Hydra-equipped wheelset for 2,000 CAD, and Da Package bar and stem combo for 400 CAD, and that folks buy all those things regularly from what I see riding on the North Shore, the complete bikes are a strong value for someone in the market for a super bike. RockShox Ultimate suspension, an X01 Eagle AXS drivetrain, Maxxis rubber, AXS dropper post, Code RSC brakes, the high-quality headset even decent saddle and grips for an extra 3,600 CAD seems like a really good deal.

Yeah, I'm laughing too. There's a less expensive GX Eagle AXS build version, still with the in-house carbon frame, hoops, and cockpit, that's selling for 9,300 CAD. It's still a sold build with Industry Nine 1/1 hubs, RockShox Select+ suspension, and Code R brakes but even for 2.2K CAD less of an investment we're talking about a premium amount of money for a premium level machine. Just driving around with the Arrival on the back of my car feels entirely off-brand to me. Especially because I see that trunnion-mounted shock in my rear view, taunting me every time I look back to satisfy my paranoia that the bike is still there. I‘m almost scared to ride it never mind take it anywhere.

As personally not-me as the Arrival is, with it's carbon this-and-that and battery shifted drivetrain and dropper post, why did I agree to take a stab at reviewing this bike? Look at it! Consider We Are One's creation story. How could I say no?

we are one arrival spec 2023

The Arrival 152 frame geometry is unchanged from the first to second generation of production.

Super Boost Done Right

I've already written about the future of hub spacing but this is the first time I've specifically reviewed a We Are One product so I want to touch on it again. Yes, we're being slowly boiled into Super Boost, but go shift the SRAM drivetrain on the Arrival and then shift the same setup on any other bike on the market and prepare to be amazed. Using the combination of a Boost-spacing chainline and a Super Boost-spacing for the rear hub We Are One provides a much straighter chainline in the highest torque, highest wear, gears on your drivetrain. If you climb a lot your chains will last longer and your drivetrain will run quieter and this is awesome.

I, and many folks like me, accomplish the same thing by running a standard chainring offset with a Boost-spacing rear hub but that surrenders too much real estate around the bottom bracket area for most companies, especially those making carbon bikes, to surrender. Even if the Arrival isn't your glass of beer, make a mental note of We Are One's take on Super Boost. You will be seeing more and more of this setup, either with a 52mm or 55mm chainline, in the future.

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We Are One is the first company I know of doing Super Boost 157 rear spacing right, by combining it with a Boost 148 chainline for better shifting, quieter pedaling, and longer drivetrain life in the highest torque gears.

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Expect to see this combination of a SB-157 rear end and a 52mm or 55mm chainline from almost every major manufacturer in the next five years. The chainline is much better without designers having to surrender real estate around the BB area.

Minor Frame Changes

Other than the colour We Are One has effected only two changes to the Arrival 152 frame to go with their updated build kit. The lower linkage now has a more 'small batch machined' look to it and the upper link shaves 50 grams of weight thanks to the switch to a three-piece bonded setup with a carbon center tube.

Predicting some comments below, yes I know this will disappoint a number of riders who were really hoping for taller headtubes, especially on the larger sizes. I agree that the respective head tubes - 95, 100, and 105mm for medium, large, and extra large - are itsy-bitsy-teenie-weenie but please see my comments regarding paint colour. The team from Kamloops are doing their thing and it either works for you or it doesn't.

In my case I enjoy the aesthetics and reactions from running a righteously tall riser bar. That's another way of saying that the 27.5mm rise Da Package handlebar and 105mm headtube combination are never going to align to give me a tall enough front end on a 160mm forked bike. The stem and bar look beautiful but where Dustin Adams, the proprietor of We Are One, is a super-fast former DH thoroughbred, I'm an aging joey who likes to ride expensive toys in the forest. I will note that this is in no way a unique criticism; the majority of frame manufacturers have not increased their Stack heights sufficiently for how much long Reach numbers have become and at the same time I think we will see this changing soon. In the meantime there are many solid options for higher rise bars like Chromag's FU50 or ProTaper's 76mm Riser.

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The new link drops 50-grams compared to the old one thanks to the bonded carbon center tube.

152 We Are One Arrival NSMB Andrew Major (13)

I'll get some better photos when I take it apart to check the Trunnion mount bearings.

152 We Are One Arrival NSMB Andrew Major (10)

Da Package bar and stem are made in house at We Are One and are great looking products. The 27.5mm rise of the bar, 475mm Reach, and the 100mm head tube of this size-2 (621mm Stack) make for a low and aggressive front end with a 160mm fork.

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My parking lot test tells me I'm going to want a higher setup than the headset spacers will allow, but I'll keep an open mind either way once I'm out on the trail. I do appreciate the aesthetic they were going for though. The front end looks so clean as it currently sits.

Miracle Meat

Cold or hot, everyone loves the new SRAM. Having had the opportunity to look inside the MY23 RockShox Ultimate forks and MY23 RockShox Ultimate shocks, I'm excited to have my first chance to ride them on familiar trails. At the time I'm writing this I've had all of one parking lot test on the Arrival but compared to my previous Arrival parking lot tests I have to say that, at least for this bike, the Super Deluxe rear shock eats the Float X2 for lunch. The bike feels significantly more plush and active. I've talked to a few folks who bought the Arrival last year and are waiting for 170mm links to up the plushness in the rear, but having admittedly never ridden the 170mm, I still wonder how much of the 'overly efficient' feeling they've noted could be resolved just by swapping a rear shock?

The good news, for those wondering the same, is that this isn't NSMB's first rodeo with the Arrival and Cam has had time on the 170. His impressions on the Arrival 170 will be online late this evening.

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Quite a few varieties of RockShox Super Deluxe shocks are available these days. This build has an Ultimate-level fork and shock and the SP2 build is downgraded to Select+. In both cases the shocks have SRAM's new hydraulic bottom out (HBO) system.

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All of the adjusters on the new Ultimate shock are easy to reach while on the go. I can't imagine needing the lockout with this bike but I know I’ll need a bit of time to getting everything else dialed, even on a preliminary basis.

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I'm excited to spend some time on the new Ultimate fork. More bushing overlap, new damper, new air system, and ButterCups.

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Early feedback is very good but folks seem to attribute the same improvements to different features so it'll be an interesting experience from a reviewer's perspective.

AXS Economics Redux

I'm going to circle back to my past writing on the economics of AXS. Not GX AXS this time though, XO1. So the rear derailleur is even more expensive. AXS is not for me. I remove the batteries in transit less one go missing but even then, due to my schedule, I had the Arrival double-locked to the back of my car for ten minutes while I picked up my daughter at her elementary school today and spent the whole time wondering if some asshole with a T-25 hex key had stolen my shifter, dropper remote, and the AXS Reverb. Then I started thinking with a quick-link tool and a hex key they could be off with the X01 rear derailleur in less than 30-seconds.

I recognize that it would only take 31-seconds to steal the cable version of the rear derailleur along with the shifter too, but to me cables just add that little extra degree of deterrence. The fact is though that someone who can afford to pick up either the SP1 or SP2 level Arrival build can probably afford the very unlikely occurrence of a shifter or dropper post going missing. In the same vein, if you destroy your rear derailleur there's no NX option that you can just plug-in, so make sure you can pay-to-play before plugging your card in for the top-end wireless drivetrain.

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The lightest-of-all remote action is nice but I have warmed up to the Reverb AXS head design, charging batteries, or remembering to remove them when parked.

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I struggle a bit to get the perfect remote positions with how flattish I like to run SRAM levers and the range of adjustment available without moving the shifter and dropper actuator to their own clamps.

If you can afford AXS and don't mind the motors, the shifting is something else and the derailleurs seem to take a beating. Folks love the effortless action of the dropper post as well, though I can think of a few options that I think are better aside from that. It is really nifty, as I mentioned earlier, that We Are One went with the full X)01 drivetrain including the chain and cassette. However I personally feel about individual choices of parts spec, one thing I do love about the Arrival is that I can clearly see either build representing the collective parts choices of the top brass at the company. It's crazy to me how many 'rider first' companies put out bikes with spec that their employees clearly would not choose for themselves.

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SRAM XO1 Eagle AXS rear derailleur. Shifts wonderfully. If you have to asks what it costs to replace then you can't afford it.

Dreaming Of Old Standards

I'm going to be very brief here. I look at the custom brake mount on the back of the Arrival and I don't understand why they didn't just go with an IS brake tab and a nice machined adapter. It looks clean, there's nothing proprietary about it, and it means fewer threads in your carbon frame. There's possibly something I don't understand about carbon manufacturing going on, as I noticed that Guerrilla Gravity has dropped their very clean IS brake tab setup for their one model with a carbon fiber back end, but I've certainly seen it implemented in the past on plenty of carbon rigs.

"Did you consider just using the existing IS tab standard" is a question I'll be posing to We Are One as part of my review along with some in-depth questions about long term product support and a move to repair rather than replace carbon product after a failure. The other old standard I wish they'd used was a rear shock with eyelets instead of Trunnion mount. That said, if anyone can pull off the necessary QC/QA to make a decent Trunnion setup I'd believe it's Dustin's team building frames in house. I'll be keeping a close, close, eye on the Trunnion bearings over the course of my test.

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I have a well-earned dislike of Trunnion shock mounting, but I understand why We Are One chose to use it here in terms of packaging. The one piece link is stiff and everything moves smoothly.

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This custom brake adapter seems like a lot of work to build a more durable interface that a standard post mount setup while at the same time avoiding tried, tested, and true IS brake tabs. IS would look clean and means no threads in the carbon. I'll follow up as it seems We Are One usually have considered all options and a reason for their choice.

We Are Two

Short of the minor changes to the linkages and the new spec this Arrival isn't different from the past iterations we've tested at NSMB. If anything I imagine most folks will be more interested in Cam's experience comparing the 152mm and 170mm travel options as that will be a tough decision for plenty of prospective purchasers. On the other hand, this rig sits squarely outside the more budget-friendly, entry level, and min-maxed themes that are my regular stomping grounds and is probably a more elite level ride than what a guy who's quite happy plunking around on his basic Marin Rift Zone, or fully rigid rig, is going to push to its limit.

152 We Are One Arrival NSMB Andrew Major

I hadn't even put pedals on it at this point, so I'll report back with a second look once I have a few trails under my belt.

The good tidings for folks that are keenly interested in one of these rigs are that Cam and I will both be writing about the Arrival over the next little while and he has some experience on the 152mm version and is on the 170mm regularly now. The nature of the timing of these things is that I've barely had a chance to play with sag, never mind cheat the pistons forward on the Code brakes, charge the batteries, or get the tires dirty. I've certainly spent too much time today, when I was supposed to be writing this, looking at it though. The Arrival frame, like We Are One the company, is truly unique to B.C. and the bike industry as a whole.

I'll present a second look once I have a my setup dialed in.

Editor's Note on Pricing

When the original We Are One Arrival was released as a complete bike there were just two models; the SP1 and SP2. They were priced at 12,969.69 CAD and 9999.69 CAD respectively in late 2021. The price for each now is 11,499 CAD (9,199 USD) and 9,299 CAD (7,399 USD). You could argue that some money has been saved, with Chris King headsets being replaced with Cane Creek and Magura brakes swapped for SRAM Codes, but the tires have improved as have the rims and the prices have gone down by 1477 CAD and 700 CAD. Considering most other manufacturers, who produce their bikes overseas paying lower salaries, have increased prices for identical bikes in that time, this is a remarkable accomplishment. Compared to many big brands, We Are One's prices are a bargain for similar spec levels, despite much lower production numbers and built in North America frames, rims, handlebars, stems, and hubs. This is a remarkable achievement and a commitment to value that's rarely seen in current markets. - Cam McRae

Complete spec and more info here

We Are One Composites

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Comments

mammal
Mammal
2 weeks, 6 days ago
+7 Pete Roggeman Andrew Major vantanclub Mike Rock Smith gubbinalia dhr999 bishopsmike

Love the points about comparative pricing and value. I'm still not going to be able to afford to add one to my household, but that doesn't mean it's not a good deal for everything it is. What a beautiful Canadian that thing is.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+2 gubbinalia Mammal

Thanks, yes, I originally was going to use the word ‘fair’ to describe the price but I didn’t necessarily think I’d get the right reaction. It’s a hell of a lot of money, but if I had that sum to spend on a bike I think We Are One is delivering a very interesting and well kitted rig for the payout.

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

"Reasonable" is the word you are looking for wrt price.

Edit - I could "justifiably" justify the reasonably fair price of this fantastic looking and performing bike.  Understandably my other half may not share my thoughts...

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Hahaha. I don’t know about “reasonable” although maybe it’s vague enough. What about “understandable” go to the win?

Reply

cooperquinn
Cooper Quinn
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+2 Andrew Major bishopsmike

"justifiable"

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Yeah. That’s a good word for it.

finbarr
finbarr
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 Andrew Major

I agree. I can't afford it, but it seems like much good value for a high-end bike.

Reply

Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

One day the price of these will be a lot less. A 2021 will still be as good as it is today in 2026, assuming all the bits hanging off it and the bearings are the same. We Are One has built these to last.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Strong point. Be interesting to see if we’re writing about min-maxed 2023 Arrivals in 2033.

Reply

Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

A bunch of stuff would need to be seriously clapped and not replaced with similar quality stuff over time, not a ton of superbikes seem to make it into the series!

Reply

handsomedan
handsomedan
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+7 Velocipedestrian Blofeld Kos FlipSide dhr999 Vik Banerjee Andy Eunson

I’m a big fan of WAO and have three of their wheelsets.  I want to love this bike but there are a few deal breakers.

1. Low stack height.  I know you could run high ride bars, but my wrists / anatomy lines up best with 12 or 14 degrees of backsweep.  Nobody that I know of is making a high rise bar with that much backsweep.  Wish someone were though.  Love sq labs bars, but high rise they are not. 

2. Seat post insertion on the largest sizes isn’t enough.  It’d be hard to ride less than a 210 dropper having ridden one for a few years now. 

3. Small diameter seat tube.  I’d love to see a seatpost diameter that takes 34.9 because that’s the way things are headed for good reason. 

4. Trunnion mount - hard to get past this one.  Would have been cool to see some trick spherical bearings on the mount (like Nicolai uses I believe) to keep shocks working and/or a regular mount.

5. Super boost.  Could probably look past this if it were the only one on the list.  I have three wheel sets that can all be interchanged if needed which is super awesome when repairs are needed.  This kills that convenience. 

In spite of all of that I’d still be keen to ride one and see if the bike is that amazing (combined with the great service from wao and the fact that it’s made local with local parts etc.) to win me over.

Reply

cheapondirt
cheapondirt
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+4 Andrew Major handsomedan Mark Andy Eunson

This new Mone bar with 12° sweep and 2.5" rise may be relevant to your interests, certainly caught my eye on the 'gram the other day.

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+3 Andrew Major handsomedan Mark

Ergotec do a 50 and 70mm rise 12 degree bar that are reasonably priced.

Reply

handsomedan
handsomedan
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+1 Andrew Major

Will check out both - thanks!

Reply

handsomedan
handsomedan
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+1 Andrew Major

Do you know how the ride on the ergotec compares to sqlab?  I’m on the 45 mm rise 30x and it is considerably less rise than the Sam Hill 38 mm rise nukeproof bars I was previously running.  Thinking the 50 mm rise ergotec will be great as long as they don’t measure using sqlab’s method…

Reply

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+1 Andrew Major

Ergotecs are stiffer.  I've got SQ 16s 30x 45 rise on my HT / rigid bike and they have a nice flex.  The Ergotec definitely have more rise.  Also not sure how SQ measure their rise.  I've got a set of 70mm Ergotecs as well.

Reply

handsomedan
handsomedan
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+1 Andrew Major

Thanks, appreciate the info.  Have ordered the 50mm rise ergotec bars.  Went with the safety level 6 hoping they will be a little bit more compliant than the 6+ (6061 vs 7075 aluminium).

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 4 days ago
0

Yeah SQ 45mm rise is low compared to how other companies measure rise.

Reply

Frorider
Frorider
2 weeks ago
+1 handsomedan

The very low stack height in the XL completely removes it from my consideration as a 6’2” rider.  Yes, if one ignores the significant increase in effective stem length you can resort to the riser bar bandaid.  Or, as seen in other review pics, you can throw in an extra 30-40 mm steerer spacers but then the reach is reduced by say 15 mm.   Sadly WAO isn’t the only Canadian brand building these full suspension triathlon bikes ;)

Reply

T-mack
T-mack
2 weeks ago
+1 bishopsmike

I'm 6'4" and run mine with a 170 Zeb, rides great. I've got it set up very similar to the S5 Enduro it replaced

Reply

We_Are_One_Composites
We_Are_One_Composites
2 weeks ago
+1 Lynx .

Our approach to the stack is that you can always add stack to a bike in many ways. Spacers, stems, bars, headsets, steer races, and forks can all add to the stack. But once you have a high or set high stack, you cannot remove it as easily.

Not everyone wants or needs a supreme high stack, and we aim to have The Arrival give you options for where riders prefer their stack.

Reply

handsomedan
handsomedan
1 week, 6 days ago
0

Pretty limited bar options if 8 degrees backsweep bars don’t work for you. Spacers aren’t a great option as mentioned above.  At 6’3” I don’t want to lose reach.

Reply

Vikb
Vik Banerjee
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+3 Velocipedestrian danithemechanic bishopsmike

"I wonder how long it will be before boutique bikes ditch the shifter cable routing ports."

For a second I thought you were about to announce a boutique bike SS revolution and the whole article clicked for me. Then I realized you meant AXS or the new Shimano wireless shifting driverain Deore DGS800099WTF!! ;-)

The good news is you can buy stick on cable guides for $0.50 each and still rock and roll with cables should that cable hating future materialize. Whew!

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 Kos

Yeah, route the brake and dropper externally in a channel like Guerrilla Gravity and ditch provisions for a shifter cable and let folks 3M guides on if they really want.

Reply

alexdi
Alex D
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+2 Lynx . Franky

They're welcome to it. I'll just buy from a brand that doesn't assume we all want a bunch of a batteries.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

I don’t think anyone has gone there yet?

Reply

Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

This comment has been removed.

Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

There was definitely a rumor around town of the shift ports going away as part of a deal with SRAM to ensure stock... glad to see it was just a rumor.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Interesting, hadn’t heard that rumour. To the best of my knowledge no brand has gone wireless-specific yet, although anyone routing through the headset may as well have.

Reply

cooperquinn
Cooper Quinn
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

The newest Aethos is wireless only. There are no ports for shifting.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+8 Lu Kz Velocipedestrian Timer Niels van Kampenhout Lynx . Mike Rock Smith Bern Mammal

Cooper. Dude. Roadies think it's totally acceptable to route their cables around their steerer tubes, out their headsets, into their stems, and through holes in their handlebars in the name of the cleanest possible look. 

They're seriously willing to risk sawing through their steerer tubes with brake housing, risking failures at 80km/h down steep hills for an aesthetic. 

In this conversation, they do not count.

Timer
Timer
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+3 Andrew Major Lynx . Velocipedestrian

The backlash against headset cable routing in mtb is so vicious that there is hope this silliness won't last more than a handful of model years. Even pressfit BBs are on the retreat, not all is lost.

cooperquinn
Cooper Quinn
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

OK. Lets revisit this conversation in 3 years. 

That silly "through the headset" routing roadies are doing will never be a thing for mountain bikes, either, right?

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Yeah, touché. I'll be surprised if Scott doesn't lead the charge with a roadie-level cable hiding job. Probably won't have to wait more than a year.

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

@Timer, I think it really comes down to at what level SRAM and Shimano keep making cable drivetrains?

If GX/XT and up are wireless-only in the next couple years that may seal the ports.

Timer
Timer
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

@Andrew Major

Considering that manufacturers keep selling SX/NX drivetrains on 5k+ bikes, i find it less likely that cable routing will vanish from mainstream models even if GX and up will become wireless only. Maybe from some of the highest end models (e.g. Sworks) or some boutique brands.

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

@Timer

Completely agree. I imagine it would just be the premium level frames like S-Works, Yeti Turq, Trek Project One, SCB CC, etc.

earleb
earle.b
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+2 Jaden Thomas bishopsmike

It is a gorgeous piece of kit. I assume we'll get a bit more details on the new rims soon. I did like the original multi-tone greys over this Avacado Toast stuff, but I am glad it's not bright red. A grey fade with the new green Lyrik would be sweet.

Reply

Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+4 Andrew Major Franky Lynx . Timer

I agree with you, if I was going for one of these I'd be paying the custom cerakote up-charge or asking to get it unpainted. 

I find the olive drab makes it look like some guy just spray painted it with rattle cans in a garage - mostly because it's a colour that people love to rattle can various things to in the interior.

Reply

Timer
Timer
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+3 Lu Kz Franky Lynx .

Agreed. The lines are still great but that paint job would mean a hard pass for me. The color and fade make it look like someone started painting the frame but only managed half a coat of primer before calling it a day.

Reply

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

I think a custom-Cerakote up charge is the answer. 

I assume we’ll get details on the rims soon, but I don’t know anything other than the shape looks cool. I try and wait until after the First Look to contact companies.

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kcy4130
kcy4130
2 weeks, 6 days ago
+1 Andrew Major

Yes Andrew, you should have taken a photo! You big tease.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 kcy4130

I know. And I thought about it but the scene certainly didn’t do the car justice (light industrial Burnaby) and in the moment I thought no, it’s better in my mind. 

As not-a-car-guy it takes something special to pique my interest so while everyone’s tastes are different I promise this was a beaut.

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SomeBikeGuy
SomeBikeGuy
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 dhr999

That's actually a pretty cool solution for a rear brake mount. I'm hoping other brands steal it for use on their own bikes.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+3 Velocipedestrian bishopsmike BadNudes

How is it cooler than a couple bumps for IS tabs and a universally available IS to PM adapter - available in a range of colours even?!?

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SomeBikeGuy
SomeBikeGuy
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Honestly? This is probably easier to manufacture, particularly on a carbon rear end, not to mention likely less expensive. It's a lot cleaner looking. The potential for incorrect installation is next to zero assuming the person threading the bolt in knows how to, well, thread a bolt in properly. And if you do somehow mess up the threaded inserts inside the frame, I bet they're easy to heli coil. Besides all of that, this brake mount only relies on bolts that are oriented in a vertical fashion. IS mounts rely on two bolts that are horizontal and likely subject to quite high shearing forces.

Besides all of the above, it's also aesthetically pleasing, which I for one think matters if I'm dropping multiple thousands of dollars on a bike.

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cooperquinn
Cooper Quinn
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+4 Andrew Major Timer Lynx . Jaden Thomas

"The potential for incorrect installation is next to zero assuming the person threading the bolt in knows how to, well, thread a bolt in properly"

This assumes a LOT more than I'm willing to with the average consumer.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

I only wrench very part-time and I see plenty of stripped this-and-that including 'shit happens' level stuff from folks who've been working on their bikes for a long time sans issue.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

No doubt that aesthetics matter. They matter a lot on a frame at this premium level as you note.

I firmly believe that sh*t happens, but even then I'd be surprised to learn that in the history of IS tabs someone has ever sheered a steel M6 bolt. Even a cheap rusty one. I've seen plenty of striped post mounts and more than a few cracked calipers. 

Curious how you would go about heli-coiling a carbon frame? I've seen plenty of questionable heli-coil fixes from pedal threads in cranks to the post-mounts on magnesium fork lowers but I've yet to see someone try it with a carbon frame. Certainly, I imagine that Robert's Composites has repaired more than a few stripped post mounts on carbon frames but I imagine that's accomplished by bonding in a new insert.

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We_Are_One_Composites
We_Are_One_Composites
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+10 Andrew Major Timer Niels van Kampenhout Lynx . Cam McRae Gage Wright cheapondirt dhr999 SomeBikeGuy bishopsmike

Awesome to see this much talk around the brake mount. Under the mount are 2 keyed-in 303 Stainless inserts with internal geometries to resist debonding or rotational forces. These could be heli-coiled, but I have no idea why one would ever need to change or adjust the mounting bolts once the brake mount is installed other than to change rotor size.
This design is because the old tried and trued IS tabs are not ideal for carbon construction. IS is one of the worst ways to supply a mount in composite material and will see its time passing. Compaction, orientation, and keeping everything square and plumb there with IS is not the best option.
On top of that, the brake forces are better distributed to the frame and do not load up in a concentrated manner making the fatigue far superior to IS. 

I hope this sheds some light on why we chose to use this design.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+2 Lynx . BadNudes

I have no idea why one would ever need to change or adjust the mounting bolts once the brake mount is installed other than to change rotor size.

This is true of every four-bolt brake adapter (v. two-bolt systems) and also valid in terms of how irregular removing the mount would be. Thanks.

When an insert does get stripped is that something that could be replaced as part of a frame repair?

Is it an open standard that other carbon frame companies could/would be encouraged to adopt or are we headed to a wild situation where every brand has their own disc mount?

Those are all from my list of follow up questions.

———

Would it be possible to see a photo of the stainless insert itself re. visualizing heli-coiling it?

———

It’s an interesting comment regarding IS mount in carbon that reminds me a lot of the arguments I’ve heard in favour of pressfit bottom bracket shells being superior for carbon frame manufacturing. I have no reason/knowledge/experience that would cause me to doubt what you’re saying but it’s always intriguing where will meets way.

It does explain why Guerrilla Grav has switched to PM for their full carbon frame after being proponents of IS tabs on aluminum frames for years.

Thanks!

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Ignore my comment below.  Great solution WAO.

SomeBikeGuy
SomeBikeGuy
2 weeks, 2 days ago
0

Awesome solution. Glad to see that there's still people in the cycling industry who think about things before just slapping together old school solutions to new school problems. The skepticism you're facing from some is likely related to years of customer abuse courtesy of so many bike companies that just don't care and don't think before charging far too much money for what ends up being sub-par products. You're doing it right, hopefully other brands follow your lead.

fartymarty
fartymarty
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Andrew - are the inserts in the brake mounts stainless steel?  If so it's a great solution (given the are aligned reasonably well - altho you could face the mount if needed).  If they're aluminium they missed a trick IMO.

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kos
Kos
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 Andrew Major

I'm a strong potential customer for this bike, but Superboost kills it. Challenge your design engineers to come up with another way to get better lower gear shifting. It can be done.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 Kos

I can both dislike SB-157 and appreciate how We Are One has used it to make their bicycle better than those using B-148 with a 52mm chain line, never mind the B-148/55mm chainline brands like Scott are pushing.

On my bikes I run B-148 with a 49mm chain line (or space the cassette outboard) to accomplish the same improvement but I wouldn’t hold my breath for any company working in carbon to build in that kind of clearance.

I know this SB-157/B-Chainline pairing is unique now but I do think we’ll see it as the norm for trail and longer travel bikes in the very near future. Basically any rig that needs more clearance than a 2.4” XC race tire. 

Personally I’d buy it over any bike using B-148/55mm - since there’s no future fix for how awful that chain line combination is without ditching a few cogs on the back. Though as I noted, I’m not actually a potential customer for either.

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kos
Kos
2 weeks, 4 days ago
0

I dunno about that. I've got an OG Slash and Fuel EX. Both run B-148, fit 2.6 rear tires without a problem, shift well, and drivetrains last forever.

Shoot, on the Slash I'm currently running a dry-conditions Mezcal 2.6 which is every bit of a 2.75.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+1 Kos

New Slash is Boost-148 with 55mm chain line. So thats the chain ring moved outboard 3mm from a standard B-148/52mm chainline that’s already not good on the two lowest gear ratios.

If you have a chance give one a parking lot test. Or even just shift it into the easiest gear and admire the angle of the chain.

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kos
Kos
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+1 Andrew Major

That sounds sub-optimal, for sure. Luckily, the OG Slash is all the rugged trail bike I need, with the new Slash being serious overkill for my purposes.

However........you got me thinking, and it turns out the my new Top Fuel Sportbike also has gone to a 55 mm chainline.

Which has been working perfectly, but I will now start obsessing about that, so thanks, dammit! :-)

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 4 days ago
0

They work okay when new (if a bit loud in the lowest gear) but if you spend a lot of time on the low gears you’ll notice you eat chains and cassettes faster. At least it’s something to be aware of.

Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 2 days ago
0

OG Slash came out well, well before boost was out. Either you are mistaken and do not have a boost bike or you in fact do not have the OG slash.

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kos
Kos
2 weeks, 2 days ago
0

Right, OG Slash 29er. Forgot about the kiddy wheels versions. ;-)

Anyhoo, the one before current with 150 rear/160 front travel.

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Lynx
Lynx .
2 weeks, 5 days ago
-1 Jaden Thomas

Please explain the WHY of this comment, makes absolutely ZERO sense to me from any standpoint.

I have been running a 150 rear on both of my Banshees for over 8 years now, paired to the good old XTM760, 51mm CL cranks without ANY issues what so ever, but with a crap load of positives, biggest being absolutely fantastic chainline, no issues back pedaling and having the chain come off in the largest cog.

There are NO negatives, I have size 48/13 shoes and pedal with toes out a bit and heals in and no issue with heal rub either and with the long version of their drop outs, I can run a 29x2.6" comfortably, 2.8" could be a bit tight in not sloppy mud.

"I'm a strong potential customer for this bike, but Superboost kills it. Challenge your design engineers to come up with another way to get better lower gear shifting. It can be done."

150 rear chainline

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LoamtoHome
Jerry Willows
2 weeks, 6 days ago
0

the 170mm Arrival unfortunately doesn't spec with 2023 forks....

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We_Are_One_Composites
We_Are_One_Composites
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+8 Timer Andrew Major Niels van Kampenhout Cooper Quinn Pete Roggeman Cam McRae dhr999 Jaden Thomas

We have fallen victim to the supply chain blues on this one. The 2022 Zeb chassis with the Charge 2.1 was what we could get, and we have been waiting until two days ago to get them. We were lucky enough to get the new rear shock for this round, and I think that part is what counts most if we had to choose. 
The 152 is all 2023 RockShox, though.

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pete@nsmb.com
Pete Roggeman
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Those look like Buttercup stickers to me.

Edit: but I see they're listed as the Charger 2.1 which is what you're saying. Hmm. I know RS forks have caused delays with delivery for some brands.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 Jaden Thomas

Interesting. Zeb is the only pre-MY23 fork chassis that could take the new air system with ButterCups so it could be a typo or it could be a hybrid spec.

The Lyrik on the 152 is definitely MY23.

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DaveSmith
Dave Smith
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

Love mine. Except the Float X2.

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xy9ine
Perry Schebel
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

x2's are great (when they're not in the shop). 

also - ugh, such a sick bike.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

If you get a good one I guess. The one on the Banshee Titan really detracted from the ride compared to other shocks I tried (SR Suntour TriAir and CCDB Coil) and this Arrival feels much less ‘dead’ compared to the Arrivals I’ve pedalled around with the X2. 

Not saying Fox spec wouldn’t have been welcome but I’d much rather see a Float X. More lively feeling and I can service the air can easily.

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xy9ine
Perry Schebel
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

i just picked up an X to get me rolling when the X2 is @ warranty (for the 3rd time). the air can serviceability alone is a big plus for me (i wasn't aware the 2 required special tools when i bought it). have yet to give it a proper flogging to see how it compares on the trail.

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Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

My 2017 X2 is mint. I've ran it back to back (ish) with a Float X (albeit changing the travel of the bike, so lots of other changes) and I thought both worked well. 

I think they've seriously gotten worse over the years.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

You have a 2017 X2 with the original inner and outer air can? Unicorn! 

I hope you never roach any part of it and have to meet the realization it’s not supported (and hasn’t been for years) and you have to buy a current spec body, and an inner and outer air can in order to keep it running.

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Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 2 days ago
+2 Lynx . Andrew Major

@Andrew Major

It is, of course, in my 2017 Daambuilt. 

Well done peter.

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 Lu Kz

@Lu Kz, may I ask what frame it's in? It must be aligned perfectly. 

I'm actually mind blown you have a Float X2 of any generation that's been through five services without needing hard parts.

Jotegir
Lu Kz
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

I told myself when it dies the bike is going coil. 

It's been 5 years and 5 full send away refreshes at fox. One day it'll go.

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
1 week, 6 days ago
0

@Lu Kz, I feel like your comment requires a picture of your Daam bike!

trumpstinyhands
trumpstinyhands
2 weeks, 5 days ago
0

I know there is a little fender there, and it's hard to tell from the photos, but is it possible that stones could get stuck between the chainstay bridge and seat tube under compression, and as a result crack the frame? I know if one or two other companies that have been caught out by that so just wondering!

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 5 days ago
+1 trumpstinyhands

Great question. I’ll play around with it and see as part of my second look.

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Lynx
Lynx .
2 weeks, 4 days ago
0

This is going to be an interesting read once you've had some decent time on that "Lazy Boy" ride Andrew, real curious to hear your thoughts on it and what it's like as someone who enjoys the challenge of riding rigid SS.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 4 days ago
0

I’m not always a Luddite. I own a very nifty Marin Riftzone that’s a fun-over-efficiency (but still very efficient… it’s a 120mm frame) with a 63.5D-ish HTA and a 120mm fork.

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Lynx
Lynx .
2 weeks, 4 days ago
0

Yes, well, I do know that you own that little ripper, but I know that if not for your injury, selecting something with squish and gears vs rigid and SS, you'll be reaching for the Rigid SS probably 75%> of the time ;-) :-p

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cheapondirt
cheapondirt
2 weeks, 4 days ago
0

There aren't many $10k, stock, bikes that grab my attention. This is one of them.

Undecided about the paint. I appreciate the subdued colours as the frame design speaks at just the right volume already. Those who know will admire it, those who don't know, don't need to know it's expensive. But, simultaneously, bikes are supposed to be fun.

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Timer
Timer
2 weeks, 3 days ago
+4 Vik Banerjee cheapondirt Lynx . Andrew Major

To be fair, if I was willing to spend 10k on a bike, I'd also be willing to spend a few hundred more to have it painted in a color of my choice.

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Lynx
Lynx .
2 weeks, 4 days ago
+2 cheapondirt Timer

Not so sure on the esthetics of the frame, if it's got funky angles just to be different or if it's as part o f the design to fit the sus etc., but it's not a bad looking frame. Don't have a problem with either colour, either, however, having a "brighter" or ability to get a custom colour would be so good. 

To the actual paint design, not a fan in the least, nothing wrong with two tone, just looks like maybe they ran out of paint, doesn't look like a concise design at all. Would either prefer a straight up colour over the entire frame or maybe raw carbon at the drop outs and HT or in the middle, or just plain raw carbon.

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cheapondirt
cheapondirt
2 weeks, 4 days ago
0

I like the angles. Stealth fighter vibes. I suspect the fade to carbon looks much cooler in person.

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AndrewMajor
Andrew Major
2 weeks, 3 days ago
+1 cheapondirt

The fade looks great in person as does, I think, the frame itself. It's unique - I mean the silhouette is unmistakable - but in a way that looks fantastic, where sometimes 'unique' is not a compliment.

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IMakeWheels
Jaden Thomas
2 weeks, 1 day ago
0

Glad to see you liked it! Read all of this, and the one on the 170. Amazing to see the feedback that is given about them. I only build wheels there currently but i'd love to learn to make the bikes too at some point. The amount of time, effort, and passion poured into everything made in the building is absolutely mindblowing.

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Lynx
Lynx .
2 weeks, 1 day ago
0

Amazing that you are a wheel builder and yet negged me for my comment on 150/157 based wheels being a great solution and should be run with 51/52mm chainline cranks. Do you get out and ride/experiment much on different setups?

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shennyyc
Sean Kollee
2 weeks ago
0

have one and like it, size large fits nice to me, no concerns with specs and I don't mod my bikes I use them then sell as original, and replace with the tech of the moment as a completely new build.  would be really curious to try it with rock shox vs the fox 36 though.  also would like to try a coil shock. zero interest in the battery shifters either, but would consider a matching Errival.

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